The battle for liquor licenses on Vernon Blvd in full force; CB2 to hold hearing
The spring brought a bunch of new establishments to Vernon Blvd, after the winter retail glut. An amazing bounce-back, but don’t get too excited (or upset) yet. At Wednesday’s Community Board meeting, the board’s City Services and Public Safety Committee addressed what they are considering a ‘flood’ of new liquor license applications (six) for Vernon Blvd.
CB2 is officially holding off on responding to any of the current applications, until after the public hearing, which is tentatively scheduled for July 13th. Everyone in the Hunters Point community is encouraged to attend, and all can have a chance to speak if desired. Date to be confirmed, time and Vernon Blvd location to be announced.
On top of the flood of new liquor license applications for Vernon Blvd, the transfer of Lounge 47′s liquor license to a new owner is being challenged by a contingency of neighbors. This is also a trigger topic so just read the article if you are unfamiliar with this situation because it’s well spelled out, though we make no assertion about its accuracy. Oh, and here’s another article on the subject.
And since this is bound to be asked: no, Blend does not have their liquor license yet. It is still pending, and local neighbors maintain they have not kept their agreements with the CB2 and should not receive it until they are in compliance. Blend has not commented as of yet.
If anyone is interested, as it’s been explained to us: the process of getting a liquor license around here involves going up in front of CB2 and getting board approval of the liquor license in context with the business plan – restaurant vs bar, how late it’s open, rooftop, sidewalk… all of that is factored. Once the approval is granted by the board, the application can be submitted to the NY State Liquor Authority. If you are interested in the liquor license approvals and pending apps for Hunters Point, go here and search using 11101 and set the date parameters from the beginning of the year to today. Have fun.
Barring Lounge 47’s liquor license [Queens Chronicle]
Vernon Blvd bar draws residents’ wrath at CB2 meeting [Queens Gazette]
NY State Liquor Authority [website]
Uh-oh — here we go. If liqcity was worried about the fireworks in that last thread, this one will surely get people nice and riled up.
1, I think that unless you have lived right next door to a noisy bar or restaurant with an outdoor area and you are over a certain age with young children, you might never understand how horrible that can be. Before you attack the neighbors near Blend in this thread (I hope not), just think about how you might react to having incessant noise in your home.
If you live next to a commercial space, you should not be complaining about restaurants, cafes and bars opening. Stop being selfish and trying to ruin the development of the area for everyone else.
Well, the people who lived there were there for many years before the bar. And what about loud drunks being selfish and ruining the area for the neighbors? There’s an argument to be made from both sides. Each side should just compromise.
That’s the key point #4; many of the residents were there before these bars and restaurants came along. I for one, would like those bars and restaurants, and more of them.
But I can say that because I am several blocks removed and the only sound I have to worry about comes from: a) inconsiderate folk partying until 4am at The Gantry, b) other inconsiderate loons on top of the roof deck at Avalon Riverview North partying well past 11pm, c) the firehouse on 47th, and d) getting buzzed by NYPD helicopters in the middle of the night.
However, I more than sympathize with these residents. Having lived above two restaurants and across the street from two bars (with a half dozen more within a couple hundred feet) just off Columbus on the UWS you cannot imagine how the noise can be, especially during the workweek.
These commercial enterprises must do what have been done before; incent the residents to move; but likewise, it is within their right, especially as many of these establishments have been ‘bad neighbors’ to fight the zoning and licquor licenses all the way through.
Please beware
The press articles have it a bit backwards.
Residents bothered by the noise of loud bars are looking for a solution to that noise issue, not to necessarily take anyone’s liquor license away. If taking away a license from an irresponsible bar owner is that solution, so be it. It is and has always been a noise issue. What they were asking CB2 to do was to oppose the applications for a specific renewal and transfer before they go to the State Liquor Authority unless solutions were found for long running and ongoing quality of life issues.
Long time residents here are not opposed to all liquor licenses, just ones that will have a negative impact on the neighborhood and for those who live near them.
How does Junior’s cafe the most vile pit in LIC have a liquor license? Talk about loud sloppy drunks! And Blend already attracts a prom night in Elmhurst crowd, lets not make it worse
I frequent Lounge 47. The staff is extremely diligent about enforcing the backyard curfew. The neighbors of Lounge 47 clearly have some sort of agenda against the establishment. Lounge 47 is hardly a wild, drunken scene where patrons \act like celebrants at a keg party\. It’s a nice place to take your parents when they’re in town, even on a Saturday night in July. Crazy party-goers do not travel to Queens, much less Vernon Boulevard for brazen nightlife, parties and debauchery as these neighbors insinuate. Nothing could be further from reality.
And #6 maybe you didn’t read the Queens Chronicle article. Here’s how it ends:
“If the rear garden were closed, that would certainly be a plus,” said William Garrett, but he added that it would be best if the liquor license were denied altoghter.
“Who wants to live on Vernon BARlevard?” he asked.
I can confirm that Ihawan has some kind of liquor license already; I’ve had a few beers there (San Miguel, a Filipino beer), and they have wine as well. Not sure about hard liquor though.
Also, the Filipino fare there is pretty tasty and authentic, although it’s definitely a bit more “rustic” than the other Asian restaurants in the ‘hood, so if your palate prefers more refined food, you’re better off sticking to BANY or Tuk Tuk. For me though, the Chicharon appetizer (fried pork rinds) and the Lechon Kawali (fried pork with liver sauce) were both intense and super tasty. They do need to work out some of their front-of-house issues though; service is a bit hit-or-miss as of a few days ago.
#3 the Zoning here has been mixed use for years. The whole point of mixed use is that commercial and residential can and should work to support each other’s needs. It’s not about letting the new wipe out the old as your post seems to suggest.
11 – so the residents should be able to harass the lounge’s patrons in the yard area? You should be focusing on hours of operation and noise control rather than trying to shut businesses down and stopping future businesses.
it’s the residents that are being harassed. Maybe the threat of being shut down will make the bar owners focus on hours of operation and noise control.
Mixed-use means just that mixed commercial use. Not just bars and restaurants. Tell me what street including Bell Blvd in Bayside or Austin Street in Forest Hills has JUST bars and restaurants. They don’t. Vernon Blvd is approx. 5 blocks long. Once you pass LIC Bar it is nothing buy commercial. So you want to have every available store front bars and restaurants. I am all for progress, but be reasonable. Yes you do have to live on Vernon or right off of Vernon to feel this impact. There are some restaurants that are just that restaurants. Tournesol, Bella Via, Tuk Tuk. They close at a reasonable hour and they do not promote the bar or rooftop dining. Even with the sidewalk cafe at Bella Via. They close at the usually time of 10:30. NYS has liquor laws and they should be followed. No more than 3 in 500 feet of each other. That is the law. Jackson Ave has retail space available how come no one is going up there?
#12, said “You should be focusing on hours of operation and noise control rather than trying to shut businesses down and stopping future businesses.” And that is exactly the point. What does one do when the business does not at all adhere to the affidavits and agreements they made to close at specific hours?
Trying to get the authorities to act is not harassment.
One thing people are forgetting that we all deserve a high quality of life living here. No matter if you live in a tower or a walk up apartment. If any smart business person is looking to open a restaurant or bar down here, they should now the laws and the neighborhood. Don’t be deceived by the amount of construction or the number of apartments. People lving on Vernon before the new bars and restaurants deserved to be listened to. You can’t just blow people off because of so called progress.
If Lounge 47 is in fact a problem, it would have been shut down long ago, as was Meridian.
The fact is that Lounge 47 is next to an unreasonable person who seems to be hell bent on having it closed down. He is obsessed.
He continues to harass the owners and patrons with his sound system and hose, yet when the police are called, he cries fowl. He should be arrested.
It is a serious issue that I hope we can find a solution for. It’s not just the lounge, that is a problem The threat is the entire length of Vernon could become unbearable if we can’t come to some standards and guidelines and find a way to enforce capacity, noise, smoke, drunks, belligerence and ventilation nuisances. While verbal agreements continue can be made between residents and restaurateurs with the help of the community board they can never be enforced. So until there is a threat that a restaurateur takes seriously there is no way to enforce verbal agreements. And the only threat my friends….is pull the liquor license. The next threat is the roof top bar which I just don’t see how they can even consider putting there. Also of concern is the 4:00 am closing time for Cassidy’s. We know the behavior of Tournesoul and Domaine…so there is nothing to contest. They are not a nuisance to the neighborhood nor a threat to quality of life issue’s. Same with Rustica, a known quantity. The new place next to etheral seems by it’s physical space to propose no threat to quality of life. They capacity is 30 for seating. They can’t have access to the back yard for 10 years…or unless Etheral sells them that lease….which could be a possibility. So in theory it could be an established place that by all appearances seems totally kosher…but could potentially be a nuisance to residents. The tricky part is establishing guidelines by which a determination can be made about a new business. As is easy to misrepresent themselves on their applications. For example: Cassidy’s assured everyone that there would be no rear garden, but they failed to reveal that they would be doubling the capacity of the bar. A determining factor when trying to establish the impact on a block. It is easy to not fully disclose your intentions get in and do what ever the heck you want. I would hope that the city services committee would put someone from Hunter’s Point on the committee as it seems ridiculous that there is not one HP resident on the city services committee?????? Am I the only one that finds this utterly non democratic?. In fact 1 board member in particular doesn’t seem to like the idea of coming down here to even look at the neighbor hood. And in fact I once herd this person say “I got screwed by development, there’s nothing you can do about it, so you should get screwed.” So it would appear that this person likes to use their power to make other people suffer, rather than their power to come up with workable solutions. I would like to see Hunter’s Point have their own community board quite frankly. The entire board only has 4 folks from HP. So why are they making decisions about an area that is growing faster than Sunnyside, Woodside etc. HP need’s more representation, or our own community board.
Kenny Greenberg might be a “neighbor” to Lounge 47 at his neon lighting company, but unless he works there past midnight, it’s a little hard to see how the bar affects him at home, a block-and-a-half away and around the corner.
No offense to Mr. Greenberg, just saying. And note that the letter was read by another neighbor at least a block-and-a-half away. I mean, I live 2-1/2 blocks away–if I say I don’t hear the bar’s noise, should that be taken as meaningful? Any chance some of these folks have their own agendas?
I’ve lived in LIC for close to 12 years now. I am organizing an action committee to serve as a counter weight to the opinions of a minority who intentions seem only to be to roll back the clock on business and residential development. I say minority, because I truly believe that they we are in the majority. They are however better organized. That is a problem I hope to rectify. Our weakness is that we all have jobs, that making getting involved difficult, but there is strength in numbers and with the load shared the burden will be lighter.
We will attend community board meetings, liquor licence hearings, land use committee meetings and we will have our own letters read, we will contact public officials, and have our own petitions. We also live here and have a right to be heard on variety of issues.
If you are interested please email me about becoming a part of this action committee:
19, the content of the letter was only partially quoted in the article. It made reference to what neighbors directly living there have told me AND personal experience visiting the Lounge. The letter mentions being a patron of the Lounge. I have had good relations with the owners as well as those affected by noise. I have seen excesses on both sides and in fact have tried to be a peace maker. It is my humble opinion that if Lounge simply kept to its original agreement with CB2 and the SLA this would all be a non-issue.
On the broader scale, if there is any agenda it is simply to express my belief that businesses and residents can join together to create the best quality of life combined with growth. Others seem to think there is some dark plot.
19, are you willing to reveal your identity and your solutions or do you just like talking about others?
#20, Woah, 12 years! That long huh?
The very fact that you stereotype the opinions as “rolling back the clock on business and residential development” shows your lack of understanding of what it means to be a part of a community’s growth. Instead you want to roll forward the bulldozer of creating more over hyped over priced condos and upscale bars and eliminate any opportunity for smaller diversified businesses and moderate income residents.
There are so many neighborhoods to emulate where you can see a better form of growth from within. In these places you see a more natural and less lop-sided economy and fewer empty spaces.
Kenny, we”ll leave the limelight for you. You seem to enjoy it. Everywhere there is a camera, tape recorder, or note pad you seem to be on the spot pushing your agenda. And please stop pretending to come together in the spirit of cooperation. Your views on development and this neighborhood are documented too well to try to pull the wool over anyones eyes. Nothing would make you happier than to see Lounge 47 close.
#23 or should I just call you Mr/Ms Anonymous? I absolutely have no desire to see Lounge 47 close. Your remarks about enjoying the limelight as well as your other interpretations of what I think are to me diversions from a real discussion. Tell us what YOU think about our neighborhood, not what I think.
And since when did it become that expressing an opinion to my Community Board is a bad thing? So what? I have a different view from you of how the scale and distribution of development can take place. I should not be vilified for having an opinion just because I am not on board with the build as big and fast as you can side of things. I am pro-development when I believe it takes in the full scope of the community’s concerns. I am definitely not about rolling back the clock.
I do take offense at your comment that I “pretend” to be involved with the spirit of cooperation. I have actively taken part in all kinds of community activities that I think have benefited the so called “old neighborhood” as well as the new developing neighborhood.
Since you know all about me, why not contact me to discuss these things directly. We could have a beer at Lounge.
I just can’t help but feel that there is a sizable group of people in LIC (see N0. 20) right now who could give a rat’s ass what anyone who has lived here before them thinks or cares about. They are determined to impose their vision of the neighborhood — one that seems to tramples on and exclude me and others. Never in a million years did I think that people who live next door to me, who go to the same cafes, and ride the 7 train with me in the morning would have such contempt for me or want to make my life miserable. All most of us want is some kind of healthy balance in the neighborhood, where we can all enjoy the changes taking place and where all of us feel welcome and accommodated. Isn’t that, after all, what the definition of a GOOD neighborhoods is? Why does one side feel it necessary to vanquish the other? It’s so disturbing.
#25, Amen!
#25 you are so right!! #16 is saying the same as you. This neighborhood is going to be divided and there will be no progress. Yes, people can choose what businesses they want to go to like Duane Reade vs Vernon Pharmacy. Its up to you, but we are talking about liquor licenses. Everyone who is opening a business knows the rules on getting a liquor license or they pay a lawyer to tell them. Just because someone is putting money into a business with the idea they are entitled to a license is crazy. 500 ft rule is a rule that has been abided by. And I believe that if the board is going to “bend the rules” for one restaurant or bar then they will have to bend the rules for all. Is that what everyone really wants for Vernon?
Some of these posts are really sad and disturbing.
I also feel there are enough bars on that particular portion of Vernon, however, the lies and stories told about the Lounge, as far back as the meeting in Cassino a few years ago, and now a false offer to discuss things over drink at the Lounge, make it impossible for me to join your cause.
Have a drink at the Lounge with Kenny? That’s a laugh. He stopped going in there years ago when he joined forces in the campaigne against Lounge 47.
You guys are too funny.
#28, let’s see I believe I was there as recently as 4 weeks ago. The burger was as always, great. Are you a stalker? How the heck do you know when and where I’ve been to. Stop calling it a false offer and take my challenge or shut up.
I’m working in my shop right now (Oh, I forgot you know where I am all the time). I could definitely go for a beer. I’m buying.
Hey, 28, do you realize how creepy you sound? Own up and tell this guy Kenny who you are. You are abusing your privileges to post anonymously.
#18 – What and where is “Cassidys”?
Hey #23/28, you got it wrong……you’re thinking of Eric Gioia….
re 23/28 etc. It doesn’t surprise me that the anonymous person launching the personal attack does not have the nerve to come clean and have an honest face to face.
re 31 Cassidy’s is the pub owned by the perspective tenant for the former McReilly’s space. Decent pub btw notwithstanding the sentiments of McR being unceremoniously booted after 22 years.
re 32 Eric Gioia – not sure about the agenda part but you are dead on about the camera, tape recorder, etc…
I think Cassidy’s is what the new McReily’s is called.
Different owners
My name is Doreen Dwyer, (#28) I live at 5-32 47 Road for some 57 yrs now.
Sorry to disappoint you #30, now, who are you?
Kenny may have been at lounge 47 recently, however, he is not their friend and contrary to what he said, he has not been a patron there in years.
You call me a stalker, scary, etc., why, because I know you guys are not truthful.
Get real. You have not been able to close down the lounge simply because there was not just cause to do so.
Oh, but of course, the police are not doing their jobs, LIC needs a new community board, and I’m a coward stalker. I think not.
Sincerely,
DOREEN DWYER
Doreen,
It is simply not true that I have not been a patron in years. Are you there 24/7 or something? How on earth would you know? ( the stalker comment was a joke btw). I am not a regular but that does not mean I want to close the place down?
Some people seem to think this is an all or nothing proposition. Anyone who knows me knows that’s not my style. In this neighborhood I have friends who I disagree with on some issues and agree with on others. From my memory the Cassino meeting I attended had nothing to do with Lounge. It was about the 500 foot rule for which Blend (another place I periodically patronize) had the bad luck or possibly bad judgment to be the focus of.
Right or wrong there are some of us who oppose the possibility of a strip of bars that have the soul purpose of attracting a night life. We have been directly affected even 2-1/2 blocks away. I personally have no objection when the license is for a business that is clearly primarily a restaurant – Rustica for example. At the time based on submitted drawings and descriptions by the owners it appeared that Blend’s focus was more on the bar and less on the food.
I may have been wrong. But the bigger point is that I have a right to express my belief without having my character and honesty questioned. I know you were angered when you demanded to see the names on the petition I was holding at that meeting and I said I couldn’t do that. What you did not understand was that a) I did not know you b) you appeared rather angry and so I was a bit concerned that you might do something with it and c) I was asked to deliver it to the Board and was not certain that the names were for individual consumption by others.
Finally I want to add that you should not believe everything you read in the papers – especially the local ones that do not have large enough staff to check facts. There were definitely distortions in the Gazette article. They got my comments right but left out a lot. They got other people’s wildly wrong. But I want to also add that many times when I have been directly interviewed at length by a reporter (note: they find me. I don’t reach out to them) I have tried to provide names of people with opposing views. If you privately forward your email I will be happy to offer your name in the future. I strongly believe that we can only get the best for our community by trying to find common ground.
#18 If by the “new place only seats 30″, you are referring to Testaccio – you are totally in the dark. On outerb, Eric already informed us that when complete the place will hold 100 people. The main floor has the communal chefs table plus some other seating — but that is not the full story. The plans are for a multi story restaurant including rooftop!
#38 I said the new Latin place goes in the vacant space next to Etheral, not the old Next Level space that is proposed for Testaccio. The roof top of the 2nd floor. Not the top floor of the building correct?
No one has tried to close the Lounge, they only wanted noise levels and certain patrons controlled. Please don’t exaggerate or distort Doreen. No one has a vendetta to see them go out of business.
Kenny,
In the spirit of community can you please explain how you have been directly affected 2-1/2 blocks away? I and others would like to know and understand. Perhaps we might come around if we could understand.
Yes, you have a right to pursue your opinion, but also you can not deny that right to others. You see when you express an opinion publicly, that opens up the right for others to question it and you. In this instance you have gone after an establishment which has not even opened its doors and made baseless accusations against them. There is no basis for a complaint against an establishment that has not opened their doors!!!!
This follows the pattern of what you did with Blend. Now after several months of operation, it is clear that this is nothing other than what the owners have insisted it was from day one – a restaurant. Now you admit in your post “I may have been wrong.” While it is big of you to admit that, what happens to the proprietors of that establishment? Your acknowledgement does nothing to address the time and money spent fighting your baseless accusations. Not to mention the lost revenue from honest hardworking people who may chose to have a beer or wine with their meal.
I do not believe in everything I read in the paper. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, but you are either not being honest, or you are the most misquoted man in America. Every article I see your name in seems to leave out some key fact. As far as I don’t find them, they find me goes. A simple response will do it every time – “No comment.”
You (or others that think like you) have come out and attacked respected members of the community who own property here, live live and do business here. I find that shameful and as spokesman for your effort (whether real or appointed by the media), I think an apology and a statement from you stating that you do not condone that sort of behavior would be appropriate.
I stand corrected – misread locations. Testaccio will be in the Next level space with a very large seating capacity –and yes 2nd floor rooftop….but since it’s not the top of the bldng., I guess it could be called a mezzanine.
To add to what 40 said, it IS possible to control outdoor noise levels without affecting the business. I lived for years behind a restaurant in Brooklyn with a busy outdoor area. But the place had a high solid wood fence covered with thick plantings and a pergola that was semi-covered. The restaurant kept wait staff in the back area and they helped keep rambunctious patrons under control. I could barely see the garden area from my apartment and never found the noise bothersome — just the normal noises you would expect to hear in any urban environment.
We don’t want to close the lounge…..
……but we wouldn’t mind if it did close (wink wink).
I’m 43 and new to this discussion.
44, I would want a place that didn’t want to do anything to control its outdoor noise to close too. That doesn’t mean I’m anti-restaurant, just anti-inconsiderate restaurant. So what is your point? That restaurants should be allowed to be terrible neighbors and have no other responsibilities to their community?
Kenny,
Distortions? OMG, I think you finally get what I’ve been saying all along. However, I think we disagree with who is distorting.
This issue has nothing to do with this guy Kenny or any other single individual. So, 46, PLEASE just knock it off with the distractions and personal venom and focus on the real issue at hand:
Why should we allow any business to do whatever it wants in our neighborhood, especially if they can easily mitigate any annoyance they cause with simple measures? If we all knew that restaurants and bars would be great neighbors, we could all get out of the conflict posture that is holding back everyone — the businesses and residents themselves — from enjoying the benefits of change in the neighborhood.
41, first off are you Doreen again or another anonymous poster. Second I don’t feel I should have to defend my honesty and integrity to people who are unable to speak with me directly in person and know nothing of who I am. This blog is not a court of law nor have I done anything wrong no matter what innuendos and implications you make.
But since you ask I will try to very briefly respond to some points.
1. “but also you can not deny that right to others. ”
When and how have I ever denied that right?
2. “There is no basis for a complaint against an establishment that has not opened their doors!!!!”
Are you talking about Blend? What accusation specifically are you referring to? The 500 foot rule allows the public to question if granting a hard liquor license to an establishment will provide a public benefit. It is our right to ask what that benefit would be. If the response was we will be “a new kind of restaurant”, we have the right to ask why such a large percentage of space in the architectural plans was devoted to bar versus restaurant seating – as this was the case before they changed it. Where is the accusation?
By the way I said I *may* have been wrong. The bigger point is they knew that they would need to have a 500 foot ruling and they took that specific risk of being slowed down. Sammi has told me that he is biding his time and will pursue the license in any case. You may not be aware btw that I created time and space for neighbors and Blend to have a more intimate face to face. The press did not cover that.
3. “you are either not being honest, or you are the most misquoted man in America.” Oh come on. You are being overly dramatic. I do my best to be honest and extend the same faith in your comments. I do now try to limit my comments to the press to email so that I can at least have a copy of what I stated. Rather than bore everyone here, if you are truly interested in dialogue, please send me the quotes that concern you and I will do my best to explain where I am coming from.
4. “have come out and attacked respected members of the community who own property here”.
Who have I attacked? When and where? What specifically do you refer to? Please don’t throw out allegations without substance.
5. “You (or others that think like you)”… no comment.
6. “I think an apology and a statement from you stating that you do not condone that sort of behavior ”
I am unaware of anything I need to apologize for. I do not condone attacks on people’s integrity and I find it strangely ironic that this seems to be what you are doing to me. Do you plan to apologize to me?
47, I think your summary paragraph states it perfectly and I for one will try to stop being part of the distraction aspect.
It looks to me like he is an intolerant guy trying to keep the neighborhood down. Why not ask for productive communication to ensure responsible behavior by the businesses instead of trying to revoke or prevent a liquor license?
50′s comment is a perfect example of how character assassination works. He is exactly the opposite of what 50 is saying. He has been a facilitator for productive communication. You can see in the posts who is intolerant.
#50, the State Liquor Authority created the 500 foot rule to control the possibility of over saturation of bars. If a new applicant applies and there are three or more existing establishments within 500 feet they must demonstrate a public benefit to their being granted a license. It is a right of the public to challenge this.
On this blog people are being called intolerant, dishonest, anti-business for doing nothing more than legally expressing their opinion at a public hearing.
What is this neighborhood becoming? Tehran?
#50 it seems you don’t seem to know the history of some of these situations. Any attempts to change a liquor license status of an irresponsible establishment by residents is AFTER productive communication has been tried, tried and tried again. When bars owners say F-you to neighbors that complain and tell them to move, the neighbors have the right to fight them any way they can. This BS of how people want to “keep the neighborhood down” is just that …BS. And putting down Kenny, one of our community’s greatest assets, is way out of line. Let’s stick to the issues please.
Kenny, you forgot to answer how you have been directly affected being that you are 2-1/2 blocks away? Please answer that as I and others would like to understand your position.
In regard to your response I am not referring to Blend – that has been discussed in great detail already. What I am referring to is the new restaurant. Given that emotions got the best of us and led to a rush to judgment on that establishment so much so to the point where you now admit that you may have been wrong, would it not be better for cooler heads to prevail? Why is it such a radical idea to wait and see what happened when the restaurant opens?
Please don’t put word in my mouth. I did not attack your integrity. Please show me where I did that. In fact I went to great length to give you the benefit of the doubt. I wish others would do the same. Regarding the attack, I don’t feel I need to point them out – I can if you like, but anyone reading here over the past few days knows full well what I am talking about. I never said you made those statements yourself, but as one of the leaders in this movement, I believe it would be a good thing to ask your supporters to tone down the rhetoric and for you to come out publicly and make a strong statement denouncing the baseless accusations and rush to judgement of LIC residents and business men. Will you do that? And if not why not?
LOL, #41 was not me, but yeah 41.
I would ask a few of you to identify yourselves as was asked of me, however, I too am done with this. Bye.
Doreen
Right on 51, 52, and 53. There is a small contingent of arrogant, hot-headed little shits in LIC who just misrepresent legitimate issues residents have to keep their steamroller going. Keep fighting the honest fight so we can have a decent livable place all of us want to live in.
54 – (again you are anonymous) in the interest of keeping distractions down I asked you to contact me. I will this one time try to again address you. Apologies to others.
1. 2-1/2 blocks away we have had two incidents of non-pro sex in public places. We have had loud drinking on our steps. We have had tree limbs ripped off by drunken revelers. We have late night boisterous noise on what was a quiet side street. Admittedly I can’t prove this is from local bars but we believe that this would increase if the whole focus of Vernon became a party strip versus a nice array of restaurants and boutiques. Again, opinion.
2. If you mean the Testaccio I have made no comment here or in the press whatsoever on the new restaurant. I was invited to speak at a CB2 committee meeting a month ago and my only comment then was that I did not know anything about them.
3. I am not a leader of any group or movement. I did create and help run Art-O-Mat. I thought we did something kind of good there.
4. Perhaps I am wrongly assuming you are Doreen. If not why don’t you also brave it and reveal yourself as she had the courage to do? #23 says I’m “pretending to come together in the spirit of cooperation” and that I “… pull the wool over anyones eyes.” #36 (Doreen) says “I know you guys are not truthful”. I was accused by 41 of “have come out and attacked respected members of the community”. 50 says I’m an “intolerant guy trying to keep the neighborhood down”. Do you really think my integrity has not been attacked?
on the SLA website, it say’s Testaccio’s liquor license application was filed with the SLA April 2, 2009. It was not voted on and approved by the Community Board until April 6, 2009. Aren’t people applying for a license supposed to get approval from the community board before they file with the SLA?
I believe the only requirement is that the applicant notify the community board of their intention 30 days prior to actually submitting their application to the SLA.
The community board does not approve nor disapprove, they simply advise the SLA of objections, etc.
“When told that a Sergeant Porter of the 108th had responded to requests to check out the bar’s noise level and came away saying he found the situation tolerable, [William] Garrett suggested the sergeant was irresponsible and the command uncaring. Having aroused Conley’s ire earlier, he now aroused that of Board Member Carol Terrano, who found his remarks about Porter offensive.”
Now tell me who do you believe? I put my money on the honest upstanding police officer who put on a uniform each day and puts his on the line.
Further proof that William Garrett himself is the irresponsible and uncaring party in this whole Lounge 47 fracas. He will not be happy until the establishment is shut down. Period.
To Whom it may concern:
In the article “Vernon Boulevard Bar Draws Residents’ Wrath At Board 2″ in the June 10,2009 issue of The Western Queens Gazette, our reporter misunderstood comments made by William Garrett at a Community Board Meeting June 4th 2009 during the public comment section of the meeting. A long time resident of Long Island City, Mr. Garrett has always been an ardent supporter of the 108th Precinct and has worked along side many officers in the Community Affairs office over the years. A correction will appear in our next issue.
Thank you
Linda J. Wilson
Editor, The Queens Gazette
From trashing Kenny to trashing William. These are good people fighting within the system for what they believe is right. I was at that CB2 meeting and Mr Garrett never said those things. It more likely comes from Board Member Carol Terrano, who always tries to make it seem like the community is against the police. As you can see in #62, the paper has already taken it back.
#61 I think if Lounge 47′s rear yard and front sidewalk were quiet and they soundproofed the inside so the noise doesn’t leak into other peoples apartments, then a whole lot of people would be happy.
I believe that there was a NYT article from a few years ago that said that the police responded to close to 100 noise complaints against Lounge 47, but did not find any merit in any of the complaints.
There is a coward here who’s method is attack and run. Then when trapped by an appropriate answer quickly changes the subject to another attack. Note the lack of response to Kenny’s thoughtful answers. Strangely thereafter a new line of attck begins.
I am glad there are some thoughtful people willing to get away from the back biting and slurs. The coward has a lot of time on his hands but nothing positive to offer.
#64 you are so right. If the new owners of Lounge would consider soundproofing and enclosing….it would be the end of that story. The end, the end, the end, of that story. It’s a great place, lovely people go there. Then we could all get some rest from this tiresome effort to split the community down the middle into “Us, them, old timers, new timers hipsters, yuppies, liars, holding back progress, anti development, pro development etc, etc, etc.” All the other stereo typing that people like to divert the dialogue with.
What is non-pro sex? Just curious.
I agree with #67. A (maybe the) main obstacle Hunters Point faces as a “special” mixed-use community, is being able to peacefully co-exist right next door to each other. If both sides could shift towards the middle ground, because it is always there you just have to find it, the ENTIRE community would benefit.
As much as I would like to believe you #67, somehow I doubt it. If you do your reasearch you will see that the main complainer seem very unstable and very unreasonable. I doubt they will be happy until it is closed and that is not a position that I can not accept. I also can not accept the characterization of LIC being full of bars and resturants when there are so few to chose from. This is not 5th avenue. You can’t open a bunch of boutiques here and expect them to succeed. The business that are opening reflect the needs. There is a lanudry list of failed business on Vernon that tried that before. If you want to put your head in the sand and ignore the economics of the situation and the laws of supply and demand you are coming from a position in which there can be no negotiation.
What is wrong with having a lot of bars, restaurants and cafes along Vernon? Have any of you been down Smith Street in Brooklyn, or Union? Stop being so old.
#70 so what you are saying is that what LIC needs is restaurants and bars to progress. Yes, I agree buy not one ONE block. Long Island City is a big neighborhood. It doesn’t consist of just Vernon Blvd. I can’t understand what you people are going back and forth about. There are six new liquor licenses that are being applied for on Vernon. SIX within 2 blocks. It was said earlier there is a 500 foot rule in NYC. I don’t think another Italian restaurant is a necessity for LIC’s success. Rustica, Siam Sushi applied almost a year ago. They are up and running. We all see what they are about. Now we are just supposed to over ride it because an “upscale brick oven pizza” is going to open. Oh, I don’t think we could live without that! The Blend and Lounge 47 situation is getting out of control. I think everyone involved are acting worse than little children. It’s time for everyone to grow up. I hope the people on this board show up and the next board meeting.
#71 how many blocks is Smith Street?
#73- irrelevant. Take a 5-block stretch and you will see dense groupings, it doesn’t matter how many more blocks there are.
I know these areas of Brooklyn very well. They are not densely packed with places who’s main focus is drinking. There is an interesting mix of restaurants, clothing boutiques, art galleries, and even hardware stores – something we sorely lack.
Only a few would oppose this type of development. Most of us who have been shot down here and elsewhere for trying to keep the bar density down would love to see the neighborhood flourish with diverse and affordable businesses.
“No one has a vendetta to see them go out of business.”
Oh really? Why then, as I dined a few weeks ago, did I see a table on the opposite side of the yard, get hosed with water from a neighbor who has all the ‘quiet’ signs up in his/her yard? Want to get your point across? Stop standing by people like this.
I have been a happy customer at Lounge 47 for years. Never once seen loud people, never once seen trouble, never once seen people engaging in any kind of behavior that might raise an eyebrow. Lounge 47 is a great place and I love the yard they have out there. Sometimes we are asked by staff to move indoors during the week, and we do so happily. Nobody wants to be a bad neighbor, but I wouldn’t want to live next to that crazy.
#76 is right. There is no excuse for behavior like that. No one ever adressed that because there is no amount of spin that you can put on it to justify it. And then they wonder why people frame the arguement as us vs. them.
Come to the table in a constructive manner and people will deal with you. Act like a child or a thug and you will be treated accordingly.
As a newer patron to Lounge 47 I have to say I am having trouble fully appreciating all the complaints of the neighbors about this establishment, and it’s unwillingness to work together.
I came to Lounge 47 for the first time on a Friday night looking for a late night dinner with a friend. We arrived around 10:45 looking to sit in the garden. Right away one of the staff politely warned us of the midnight curfew. We sat outside surrounded by others like us looking for something to eat, a drink or two and a great setting to do it in. We enjoyed our dinner and as we were finishing up the waitress comes over to remind us that in 20 min we will have to move inside. Not more than a few min later a fairly heavy stream of water comes from above. We realize we’re being sprayed with the hose of the next door neighbor. At this point the waitress comes over to apologize, offer us a drink as compensation for the childish display, and explain that the neighbor tends to do that if he thinks it’s too noisy. I have to emphasize no one out there was having more than a casual conversation. The waitress gives us another warning, and then at about 5 to midnight asks us to sign our check inside. We followed the other tables as everyone cleared out of the garden.
*This unwillingness to abide by restricted hours just does not apply.
Since then I’ve frequented the bar and become friendly with the staff and many of the other patrons and there are more than a few things I’ve noticed… First of all they HAVE made efforts to reduce sound in the back garden, there is sound proofing on all the walls, and I’m not sure how effective this may be but the waterfall in the back was installed almost solely for the purpose of white noise to lessen the sound of voices (at least they’re trying.) Secondly, they typically close around 1 or 2 am, (the garden closes on “school nights” at 10pm and Friday and Saturday at 12am,) and they serve food until 12am, not a sign it’s really looking to attract the late night drunks. Thirdly, I would like to point out that I’ve never been to a bar where there were as many neighborhood regulars that truly were as warm as they are there. As one of the staff members said, “It’s like family.”
It’s our cheers.
So to those who believe this to be just a place to get “sloshed” I have to point out that it is not as savage as you would like to make it out to be, and please respect those of us in the neighborhood who would like to have a warm, fun place to frequent.
The neighbor sprays water at patrons who are eating and having drinks in the yard? How can you take complaints against this place seriously from people who behave in such a neanderthal way?
I think the lounge should file charges against him. I’m sure his behavior and badmouthing of the place has cost them customers. I know I would be quite upset if someone hosed me, especially knowing it was intentional. Maybe a civil suit.
Also, his constant harassment with that noise he makes should really be dealt with. I’ve heard he even records patrons private conversations and plays it back over a loud speaker. There must be some law they can get him on. From what I’ve heard he has tried all he can to get them. Why don’t they do something. I certainly would be willing to be witness to what I have seen.
Maybe they can contact mental health services. I remember once when I had a problem with a tenant, the police recommended I contact some mental health place to evaluate the person. It sounds like he needs help.
They may really be doing him a kindness.
I am shocked to read the vitriol and lies about Lounge 47.
I live in the neighborhood and have been going there since they opened 5 years ago. Its become a place to go to for a bite to eat and a few glasses of wine. As a single woman, there are not many places to go where one can sit at the bar and feel safe and comfortable. Lounge 47 is unusual that way. The staff and the owners made it a home for everyone, including me, and I’ve made many good friends there. Had it been a “keg party” atmosphere as mentioned in an article, I for one would not have been a patron. Of all the places on Vernon, Lounge 47 is the most laid-back place I know. The image of it being a raucous bar comes from their crazy neighbor who has been trying to shut them down for years. Go to restaurant and see for yourself.
It would be great if CB2 functioned as an effective council on neighborhood disputes, rather than the gut-wrenching display of greed and cronie-ism it currently is. Because that is the whole point of having a COMMUNITY BOARD. This really should not be about Lounge47 vs The Neighbor, these kinds of disputes are always going to crop up. It is about how the dispute is being handled by the community board, and used politically to distract from the fact that they’re denying other viable and community businesses from getting their much deserved liquor licenses.
The specific board committee that is deciding the fate of the Lounge47 dispute and determining which of the 6+ pending liquor license for Vernon/Jackson will be approved, is comprised of ZERO residents from Hunters Point. No disrespect meant, but they are mostly elderly folk who live in Sunnyside or Maspeth, and are totally disconnected with the special needs of Hunters Point, a special mixed-use district on the waterfront that is undergoing massive development and change. They are also somewhat disconnected with the 21st century in general. We need true representation from the community to make decisions in situations like Lounge47 and what liquor licenses should be granted in OUR turf. If people do not step up and start attending meetings, you have no right to complain anonymously on a blog.
Wow, there are actually single women in LIC? I never see any.
Maybe I’ll go to Ladies Night at Shi.
I should clarify, not only are there zero residents on the committee from Hunters Point, there is no one from Long Island City at all. And they get to dictate the business of LIC. Make no sense at all.
Thanks, Joan! Very well put and heartfelt.
As for the hoses being turned on patrons, I am amazed that no one has called the cops on Garrett. Or have they? At the very least, I would go after Mr. Hose Man for my dry cleaning bill!
As someone who has voiced an opinion for not oversaturating the neighborhood with primarily drinking related establishments I want to strongly state that saturating the clientele with water or any similar action is just plain wrong.
At the same time I would hope that people could sympathize with those of us that are just trying to ask how do we support growth here and at the same time not become the East Village or similar.
Wow, who knew that this was going on there! Where is this guy Kenny and all of the other anonymous Lounge47 bashers? Will they come out of hiding and publicly ask this guy to stop? Or do they turn a blind to vigilantism as long as it supports their cause? The neighborhood is watching. What say you? Please note your silence speaks volumes.
87, I just commented. My post is #86. I am not a Lounge 47 basher, I have already expressed my concerns in public and private.
Please stop lumping everyone into convenient stereotypes of dark plotters. It does a disservice because you are associated our valid concerns with activities we would not condone.
Also if you are going to throw people’s names around carelessly, how about revealing yours?
Kenny I wouldn’t waste time engaging them. They seem hell-bent.
# 89: No, hell-bent would be spraying patrons with a hose. Voicing an opinion is a reasonable way to express oneself.
I don’t know where all of this will end. I was just sitting outside in front of my house with my neighbor Laura. She will be 90 yrs old next month.
Her family wants to give her a party at a restaurant of her choice. Being the hippest gal in town (along with 100 yr old Rose Fazio), she chose Lounge 47.
Well, Laura was very dissappointed when Lounge 47 could not accommodate her for a Sunday afternoon party in their garden due to fact they are concerned that a party in the garden (on a Sunday afternoon) would cause problems from the neighbors.
I think that says it all.
Doreen
It sure does, Doreen.
what’s wrong with the East Village?
91, thank you for coming forward and putting a face on this. Common sense and reasonableness seem to have taken a holiday in this matter.
#89: hell-bent on what?
Its taken a little time for Lounge 47 supporters to come on board and support the place that has become a sort of “Cheers” to many, but we’re here to stay and help them fight the crazy neighbor and his friends.
If Lounge 47 had opened at a location that was suitable for an outdoor eating and drinking area, Laura could have had her party there without issue. But instead they opened in the middle of the block within a few feet of resident’s homes without concern for anything but their own business. Laura’s deep disappointment should perhaps be directed at Lounge 47 for not having researched their location properly and for not coming up with a business plan that was suitable for all those concerned.
Go away #96. We heard enough.
Doreen, you sure they just didn’t want a bunch of tipsy old ladies in their bar? Lord knows what mischief you gals can get up.
It’s so weird reading the stuff on these boards. Everyone’s opinions get so distorted and radicalized by those on the opposing side, when I’ll wager that a vast majority of people more or less share the same opinions about the need for businesses and residents to just coexist and be good neighbors to one another.
I guess #96 took time out from his hosing actiities to lend us a few words of wisdon. FYI, it is not a “residential” block. It is a “mixed use” (Commercial/Residential) block.
96, so in your book Cassino’s garden, which is a few feet from neighbors on one side, also made a bad choice on location? No, obviously they did not, and neither did the owners of Lounge 47. What they had the misfortune to end up with is an over-the-top NIMBY neighbor. No amount of due diligence can mitigate that scenario.
Actually, Laura’s family has since booked Cassino which has had a garden many many years, where nobody ever complains, calls cops, sprays us with water, or would try to have their license revoked.
In case you don’t know Cassino, there are only 3 buildings between Cassino and Lounge 47.
Doreen
P.S. Oh I forgot, Laura don’t drink keg beer. She’s hardcore, drinks martinis.
Bring her out to Ladies Night at Shi. 2 for 1 drinks!
For the 2nd time ever, we’re cutting a thread.
Wow. I am new to all this. Why would anyone think there are too many restaurants on Vernon? There’s so few compared to other NYC neighborhoods. Weird.