Eastcoast 3 debuts as The View; Rockrose broker fees paid to tenants

How do I register to be put on their list?

you walk out to the edge of one of the piers at Gantry Park and jump off.

nov08' completion...not a chance

easily completed by fall. much less winter.

#2 what the deal? I just asked a simple question.

I dunno. I thought that was a funny answer.

you know, if 15 years ago you told me the scraggly waterfront was going to turn into this... I much prefer the tires and crap everywhere to this godforsaken piece of crap.

Me too.

good two more people I don't have to compete with to buy there.

#7 and 8 - obviously a joke, or else you both really need help.

no list yet. this is for a broker preview. go to curbed.com for the details about this broker preview at the Puck building on Saturday, March 30th.

or this could be just a April's Fool Day joke.

sunday march 30th

#7 and 8 lives in a junkyard.

#2 is hysterical. go jump off the pier, yuppies.

Go here and see for yourself:

http://www.nycondoshowcase.com/

looks like this is priced accordingly. it is priced as a well deserved premium to the rest of lic. this will most likely sell out quickly...happy shopping.

I bet this goes rental.

Fast.

well deserved premium to the rest of LIC with no onsite parking....

who gives a shit about parking?

just mid-western surburan fat asses who don't want to walk 5 short blocks to the #7 train.

*Not* 7 blocks, btw.

no way it's a rental.

god, some curbed readers/posters are so stupid.

It's at least & blocks and I would not want to be a women making that walk late at night. Remember its not Midtown. LIC has no night life. The only people on the streets out after 10pm are not the ones you want to meet on the wasy home. $750,000 starting for a 1bed/1bath in the middle of a empty nieghborhood. Actually I'm sorry. It is after all one enormous construction zone and will be for at least the next 5 years. Do yourself the favor and spend the money in aa area that at least has more that 3 rest. and at least 1 grocery store. This ofcourse unless you plan on ordering in every night or like ordering your groceries from fresh direct.

Sorry 7 blocks. And some of them are very long

This is not a dangerous, desolate walk to the train. You walk along Center past CityLights and Avalon, head toward Vernon past Powerhouse and a POLICE STATION, and the train is right there.

As for parking, most people I know that keep a car in Manhattan don't park in their buildings. It is not that big a deal to most people.

#22- I know the area very well and your absolutley wrong about the walk. At night it is very desolate. Also remember that this building is the last building on the street. And if I'm going to pay Manhattan prices in LIC I expect to have parking in my building. I'm also curious about the CC. I hope at these prices the CC are $500 month. Any more than that is just stupid.

The police station. HAHA. I know people who have been robbed around the corner from the police station. I hardley ever see a cop in the area. Sure If I walk by the station if your luckey you may see one driving away.

The police force in LIC is comprised of incompetent Neanderthals who do their best work at the Irish bar.

#23 - you need to do your homework. A comparable building in Manhattan would be $1700-$2300 per square foot. Sure, you can get a 2-bedroom apartment in Manhattan for the same price as this place, but it would be a co-op with high maintenance and more restrictions, or older, or with less amenities. The fact is that the views from this building, which you can compare to just about anything in the world, command a premium. Maybe having parking in the building is a dealbreaker for you, but it won't be for a majority of buyers.

By the time this building opens, there will be at least 5 new buildings with hundreds of apartments between this building and the train that will have opened between now and then. Sorry, it's not desolate.

And now NYPD bashers are posting, very sad.

I live in LIC. I like it, but face it, it IS somewhat desolate. There are no amenities. Apart from the building itself, there is no ambiance. There is no sense of culture, apart from PS1. There are no restaurants. There is no night life. Warehouses, some of which are graffiti riddled and dalling apart, still abound every where. The sounds of construction permeate the entire area.

And it is Queens!

So tell me again, why the $1,110 PPSQ?

Remember, $1100 only gets you lowest floor unit facing LIC not river. An apartment with decent views must cost, let me guess, $1500 and up. Yes, you may argue that it's still somewhat lower than premium properties in Manhattan, but people in that bracket may not want to have a Queens address. And foreign buyers? Fuhgeddaboudit.

NIMBYs in New York like to accuse that new developments look like buildings in Miami and I usually found that alarmist assessment laughable. Not any more. This sorry excuse of an architecture (The View? Argh.) really seems to be hauled from the land of subprime mortgage.

If you go back to 1997 people were saying the same exact thing about Citylights. No point in speculating or arguing. Time will tell.

I happen to like Miami architecture. I think it looks great - especially for waterfront property.

26- Thanks for proving my points. So you agree with more buildings going up the in area , it will remain a construuction zone for at least 5 Years. Also if their are going to be those many new units that equals a greater supply. Greater supply equals lower priceses. And a coop for me is not a big deal. I plan on putting over 30% down on $1m property so I will not have much of a problem meeting many coop requirements. EC3 has not even listed the price of the CC. Perhaps they are going to be as high as $1500/month as well. Many new development also don't even include any utilities in the CC. Tax abatement is great if the CC is very low, because 10-15 years later when it expires and your the tax portion of the CC will shoot up over night and will knock the value of your unit down tremendously. That"s why the CC should be very low for these buildings, but the developers know most buyers are unaware and still use the CC's as extra profit. God forbid you broker even explain these things to you. The $1.2m is also a starting price. So it's possible that some of the same units with different layouts be much more. Please stop saying that these prices are not the same as Manhattan, because they are.

Just about every unit in this building has Manhattan views.

More supply in LIC will not lower prices, because this is a transforming neighborhood. More luxury condos will make the area even more desirable.

It is just ridiculous to say there are no restaurants in this area. I don't understand why people who don't know the area like to comment here so much.

"Just about every unit in this building has Manhattan views." Really? So what's going to be on the back side of the building? The twilight zone?

#36 The hallways are in the back of the building. The only views of Queens are when you walk from the elevator to your apartment.

#34 do you have any idea what you are talking about?

Common charges do not represent extra profit to the developer. These charges go to the condo board or co-op corporation to pay for the cost of running the building. Developers do not get or have access to this money.

The entire neighborhood has been a construction zone for the past 5 years and 3x the people have moved in. Do you think anyone is going to start to care about that now?

EC3 will probably have a 20 year abatement. I think that is what the first Queens west co-op got. too far in the future to factor for todays buyers.

The prices are different than Manhattan. Of course you can find some apartment in manhattan for The same price, but in manhattan that money will not get you views, or new construction, or similar amount of sqft, etc. etc.

I too am tired of people posting that there are no restaurants here. There are many excellent restaurants within walking distance offering various types of cuisine. Some are in the Vernon Jackson area - others on 44th Drive and at Court Square. And, just as you would in Manhattan, when you are in the mood for something different from what those places offer or just want a change of scenery- you hop on a train or take a taxi to another part of town. Most places are no farther than traveling from UES to GV, LES or UWS. For example: Astoria=Authentic Greek, Jackson Hts.=Authentic Indian, Sunnyside/Woodside=Irish and of course Greenpoint/Billyburg and other Brooklyn spots. Hunters Point is a "neighborhood" not a "city" and cannot possibly accomodate all the "cuisines of the world".

people who knock lic also think the world is flat. and global warming isn't happening. and 'Dubya' is the greatest president in the history of the US of A. And mullets are cool.

lic is the future of NYC. we're the center piece of this area and people will realize that soon enough. although several thousand have already and are profiting from that knowledge.

the rest? well, in another generation or two you can get a subprime mortgage and move to the next 'hot' 'hood...Jamaica, Queens.

Buy low, sell high.

LIC- will begin to suffer just like the rest of the country. Their will be very few new projects due to the credit crisis. Many developers will abandon their plans because banks have started to pull its financing. This credit crunch will push back development in this city 5-10 years. Ofcourse all the hipsters and believers in global warming will think that this is a good thing. Read the paper people projects are being canceled citywide everyday. Most notable the mult-billion dollar downtown brooklyn arena project. It currently still plans on building the arena but has abandoned many of the residential buildings because of financing and the forecast of limited demand for "lux condos". Coney island is another. And various Manhattan projects. Not to mention civic projects, like upgrades to the subway system, and transit stations projects have been scraped. It's not pretty and still their are people who refuse to knowledge the declines. The reason I see for denial is that you made a bad financial decision, by recently buying a piece of property that is about to decrease a whole lot in a short time. Don't get made just remember if stay for 7-10 years you will break even. Oh also try not to ask your new neighbors in the next 6 months what they paid, it may get you sick to learn you paid $200,000 more then them a year before.

comparing coney island to lic. jeez, another stupid uninformed commentary.

coney island 4 mintues to midtown manhattan?!?

and the transit cutbacks have been predicted for several years now. nothing new there. less tax revenue from condo-co-op purchases, less revenue for the mta.

nothing exciting there.

be quiet and listen to your RE masters, you'll learn something.

oh, and if you're in your 20's...shut the fuck up and learn from those more experienced people who lived through many NYC 'cutbacks' in the 70's and 80's.

You totaly missed my point. You need to look at the whole financial meltdown in development to start to get a grasp on the problem. I look at indicators to develop my analysis. I don't let my personal opinion or financial situation dictate my post on this page or others about the econonmy and NYC housing positions. I'm only stating what I believe to be indicators which may prove useful to people with an open mind. I'm fully aware that Coney Island is not LIC. However I appreciate you pointing it out to me. I grew up in this city my whole life. I know all about different neighborhood for Coney Island to Woodlawn. I also know what neighborhoods will never get rid of the crime problems from past experience. Also #40 just remember that all cuts start small and then get larger as the gets condition worse. Take the time to look around and you might even surprise yourself. Good luck #40. It seems to me that you are very angry about a financial decision you made recently. Just remember it's only money. Don't forget you believe that it's other who don't agree with you who are stupid and ill informed.

This is a colossal misjudgment on Rockrose' part. There are other waterfront developments available in Williamsburg and Jersey. Whether those 'hoods are more desirable than LIC is debatable but one cannot deny that competitions do exist. And they are priced lower than The View.

A broker is scamming you? In other news, the sun rises in the east.

When bringing up Jersey City or Williamsburg you have to think about commutes. Getting from Jersey City/Williamsburg to midtown Manhattan is a whole other matter than just hopping on the subway.

Just because they're all on the water doesn't mean they compare to each other. And the East River has better views than JC's Hudson River views (it's narrower, allowing for more up close detail), but that's a matter of taste.

I don't know about you guys but I'm just here for the free sushi.

JC does not compare to LIC. Two words - Path Train.

haters on this board are 1 of 2 kinds of people:

1) Those who thought about buying in LIC but bought JC, Williamsburg etc instead and now realize that they are further from Manhattan than LIC - and now that it is actually progressing, they are pissed.

2) People who never knew it existed and have still never been there but want to justify their purchase, wherever that may be.

look at them, they are taking the time to read a LIC specific blog - it's quite pathetic actually. The more that they post here (negative or positive) just goes to show how much interest there is in the area.

Anyhow, with most of the new buildings being 70 - 80% sold and not even opened yet - that should be a pretty good indicator of how people feel about the neighborhood. It is also a pretty good indicator of the density to come: 3,500 people are expected to move-in between October 08 - Feb 09. Even a moron can do the math.

3,500 more people in small area with water on 3 sides (hence, nowhere else to grow) = retail to come.

Just look-up the number of outstanding commercial building permits in the area - and those are the ones already underway, wait until the 3,500 people move-in and it won't just be speculative retail anymore.

Ohhh, and for the moronic comment about the time warner center vs. this waterfront property: moron! time warner center = $4,000 - $5,000psf --- 1,100psf, depending on what you compare it to, is not that much.

Williamsburg = nice trendy area but too many previous residents to experience an immediate transition - it will be 15 - 20 years before you move out the previous low income residents.

Hoboken/JC/West NY - please, these aren't even in NYC so I don't want to even hear anyone comparing those areas to Williamsburg or LIC. Those are suburbs.

LIC has the potential for an immediate transformation becasue there were relatively few people that lived there before. The vernon jackson area has one of the lowest crime rates in the city, and well re: education - where in this city is education great? If you are paying the prices in LIC then kids will be going to private school anyway - not to say that it wouldn't be nice to have good education but in the meantime, people don't live in the city for the public education - want that: move to westchester.

I am not trying to draw a comparison - but drawing parallels to the potential... Tribeca, meat packing - former industrial areas, they didn't have to move out the riff-raff and that is why they witnessed an instant transformation.

Let's make this very simple. I can live in midtown east and work on 5th avenue - let's say the new BofA building. My walk from midtown east is about 15 minutes. or, I can jump onthe 7 and be there in the same amount of time from LIC - it's close - I can live with waiting a year or 2 for a few more shops to open --- and those of you that think it will be 5 years, get with the rpogram.

Anyhow, good luck to all of you - I wish no one misfortune, because I don't get a kick out of that...

Anyhow, for those of you posting here - thaks for illustrating how much interest there is in LIC - maybe one of these days you can go and post on your own blog williamsburg.com or whatever; and you will notice that none of us have enough interest to even find out what that blog is.

in the meantime, you have the lower eastside/east village to aspire towards - don't get me wrong, I love to go down there to eat; and yes, I do realize that some people like to live there - but until you move out all of the people that were there befrore - it will be a while before it will reach the RE value of more gentrified areas.

all comments welcome - thanks again.

Most of the new buildings are not at 70-80% sold. Closer to 40%, with a few exceptions. buildings that did well rode the earlier waves, like Badge and Purves, when the market was undeniably strong. I agree with a lot of what you said #47, but I don't think the market climate is the same as it was a few years ago, and despite the convenience to mid-town, LIC is not immune. Especially considering how expensive construction continues to become.

That being said, LIC is an awesome neighborhood and I'm happy to be living here. I just am not yet sold on buying one of those glitzy condos - I do believe there will be a market dip. All signs point to yes.

that watermark is hilarious.

48, I agree with you, I would not go for the glitzy waterfront stuff - but that is also becasue I can't afford it.

As far as % sold - the very new openings are not but many are:

10-63: over 80% sold

10-50: sold out

purves - over 80% sold

5SL - 75% sold

Badge: 90% sold

Hunter's view: 50% sold

Hunters point: 50% sold

the only two buildings that are not more than 50% sold are The Foundry and The Powerhouse - and I agree, their pricing is too high for this market. They also are not really waterfront - as they claim.

I agree that the market is not the same - I never tried to claim otherwise, but people who think that they are goign to get a huge discount on prime units, are wrong.

The stuff that will be left over (with cuts) is the stuff that I wouldn't want to buy anyway - so discount or not, I would pick a unit that I want to live in. Either a good view, or location, or layout.

Some people seem to think that they can wait a year and get the perfect unit with the perfect view for much less - that is what I do not think is realistic.

...and 49, yes, the watermark is hilarious.

If you can afford to pay $1100+ per sf, then why would you buy in LIC. there is tons of good luxury development for that price in Manhattan. WITH parking and where there are tons of restaurants, cabs, etc.... especially since half the appeal (more than half really) is the convenience to Manhattan. why not just live there?

I mean I know why I live here. But I didn't buy for those prices. And if I could afford that, I definitely would have considered Manhattan, maybe even Williamsburg first.

Hey #50 I thought you said that every unit in EC3 will have great views. So by your own theory this building will sell every unit the first weekend. After all, every unit is priemo. Stop with the nonsense. Everybody agrees that all of LIC has great views.The question is at what cost. Look if I had millions then the view would be a must have. Then again if I had millions I wouldn't be looking in a neighborhood with 3 rest. and no grocery store. And buying in a building that is 7 blocks to the nearest train and doen't even have it's own garage. I can see it now. Leave my condo walk to the elevator, take it to the lobby, walk across the street to another building, enter their lobby, that their elevator, to their garage and walk to my car. Repeat this everytime I have to drive to the nearest grocery store about 1/2 mile away in Greepoint or Astoria because the $1M condo I bought was in a neighborhood with no stores. Oh I almost forgot the Duane Reade and the Amish market are coming soooooooooon. Even if they do come it's still not enough commerce for over priced real estate. What happen to the Star "Bucks". I find that situation very interesting. Either they decide that their was no market in LIC or that the "economy " did no support new stores opening. One or both of these reason are right, however it really doen't matter does it. Either reason is a bad indicator.

isn't this a land lease deal?

"move out the previous low income residents"??? #47, why are you so scared of black people?

what black people in LIC? there hardly are any.

Not every new building in LIC has the great views. In fact, I would say that more than half do not, and not many have the full-on views that this one has.

#53 - You're not following the market very closely. You are not getting a premium condo in Manhattan for $1100 psf. More like $1500 psf and up.

starbucks is stopping expansion. has been for awhile. not related to lic, so let's not be stupid.

5SL is 80% sold

hahahah - yeah, I don't like the tone of 47 or 50 but the point is 100% correct.

57, I agree with you too. 52 does not know what they are talking about; 1,100 psf in manhattan will buy you a 600sf apartment in an old coop in manhattan with a view of a brick wall - that is average price in manhattan. a comprable luxury building could go as high as 3,000psf. so, 1,100, if the building turns out to be nice nice, will be a reasonable deal. Think of it this way, if you were buying a 2 bedroom for 2.5 million in the city (850sf) then you could get a 1,700 sqft 3 or 4 bedroom in this building with a large outdoor space overlooking the water. I'm not in the market for that but it makes a huge difference in what you get for your money - if you have the money.

55 - whether 50 believes that "low income resients" are good or bad people does not change the point about the value of property. And at no point did the person mention anything about race. You brought that up yourself.

starbucks person: a national plan was announced just about a month ago that part of their corporate strategy was to begin scaling back shops, the quality is going downhill, that is why they have decided to stop opening new stores -- anywhere.

Can't wait until Duane Reade and the Amish market hit. Then no one will be able to make the silly argument about retail. When they open it will be a shot in the arm to any development that still has not sold out. Will finally make LIC a legit neighborhood.

And you people can't count. Leave building on 47th Road south to 47th Rd south to 48th Ave south to 49th Ave south to 50th Ave east to Vernon. 1,2,3,4 blocks and one Avenue. I know plenty of people in Manhattan on the far east or far west side that would kill to be that close to a subway.

Regarding parking a lot of peple could care less. (Such as myself - will never own a car in the city.) How many new luxury building in Manhattan include parking? Virtually none, and they all manage to sell. If Rockrose is smart and it proves to be an issue it can easily be solved by offering some sort of valet parking service.

That should be:

leave building on 47th Ave south to 47th Rd south to 48th Ave south to 49th Ave south to 50th Ave east to Vernon.

53, there is still prime and non-prime in the building. Just becasue all of them have views doesn't mean that some are not better than others. outdoor space, higher floors...

would you want to be on the ground floor or in a more triangular shaped living room - wait until you see all of the layouts, I guarantee that some will be more desirable than others.

by the way, in my post, I did not say that all of the units were prime ...and someone else said that they all had views - which is what I assume you are responding to. And yes, they will all have views - from what I understand.

55 --- I do not have any issues with black people - where is that coming from? I am talking about new neighborhood vs. established neighborhoods. Some people may agrue that's why LIC has a lack of charm, because of the lack of establishmnet - but, the truth is, becasue it was not previously established, it is defining itself - and that gives it the upper-hand for faster increases in property value.

60 - well put. People who think that $1000psf can get you anything in manhattan are smoking something. That is slightly below the average price in manhattan - which means that you are most certainly not getting anything worth bragging about.

try typing in 800sf in manhattan for under $760,000 on any of the major broker's websites and tell me what you find. It certainly will not be a new luxury building - which is why, unfortunatley, I can not look in manhattan.

60, I agree with you. Willimansburg has hit its peak becasue the market is now full of new buildings but the old ones are not going anywhere anytime soon. Not that the people living in them are bad - but the buildings will take longer to change becasue the people living in them need to live somewhere - and many of them do not have the money to renovate/upadte them.

LIC does not really face that problem - it is much easier to buy a warehouse and tear it down. Others may see excessive teardowns as a problem though.

:) I agree with 47 - all the posts on this site just show how much interest there is in the area. it's quite funny - it's the same way on curbed.

the posts on here are different from curbed. it's actually more people who live or have interest in living in LIC. lots of curbed commenters have no idea what they're talking about - half of them sound like they couldn't even find LIC on a map. Much more of an interesting exchange. I actually learn a lot from this blog and the comments.

The lack of credit is going to drive the price of NYC real estate down by at least 20-30% in the next 6-18 months. Don't stick your head in the sand and ignore all the signs. Keep telling people that everything is going to be ok. Keep telling people that if you don't act now you will lose the chance of a life time. Your pitch sounds very much like an info-mercial at 3am. Its almost comical. And forget about just LIC. I don't discriminate, the indicatos are for a large down turn ALL over the city. If you bought in the last year you made a bad financial move unless you can wait to sell for at least 7 years. The thing that will help people now will be that the banks won't lend 80-90 % of the people the money. AND FOR THAT YOU SHOULD BE GREATFUL. The bank just saved you $100's of thousands.

#69 keeps spewing the same inane drivel over and over. Notice that he does not provide any concrete facts or basis for his conclusory statement that there is a lack of credit. The Fed actions (lowering rates, allowing greater access to the discount window, injecting more liquidity into the market, etc.) and the access to global capital is keeping liquidity in the market. Lending standards will be higher, therefore there will be less funding for those with poor credit records, but people with good credit will have access to capital for residential loans. There are no signs in the market now to conclude otherwise.

The big risk to real estate values right now is the potential economic downturn. If the economy takes a steep downturn and the job market suffers significantly (which has not happened yet), real estate values could be affected short-term. But no one can predict at this point if that will happen.

As for LIC, another factor exists to counter to a degree market events. It is physically transforming. It is undergoing physical and demographic changes that in and of themselves are adding value to the area. While not immune to market changes, this transformation will help to buffer the area in the short-term and will be a huge boost long-term.

#70 -To say the credit crisis is not going to have an effect on the real estate market is just insane. It is clear your head is buried in the sand.Oh by the way check bloomberg. You will find an interesting artical about MANHATTAN showing signs of a slow down. Credit is getting harder even for people with good credit. Keep on with your positive outlook .You just may be able to turn the market around and convince the banks that they made a big mistake by not lending to people with no money down and poor credit. The banks are using the fed window to hord money not make loans. It very similair to revolving debt. You just borrow cheaper money to payoff debt. The problem is that eventually if the bonds continue to decrease you will be unable to pull out of the downward spiral. And as for the job market. How do you think the jobs are being lost to begin with. Is your view of the problem that narrow that you don't understand that it is the credit crisis that is the reason for the wallstreet jobs being lost by the thousands. To say that the credit problems are not to blame,or will not be a factor for the decline in the NYC real estate market is just plain nieve. Hows that for concrete facts #70. Tell the people at Bear who lost their life savings and will soon lose their jobs that credit had nothing to do with their problems.

71 - You are the Master of Misstatements. I never said that credit problems weren't a main cause of current economic problems. However, I did say that there is sufficient liquidity in the residential real estate market right now for borrowers with good credit. In the current market, good buyers are getting loans. That is a fact and your statements otherwise are nonsense.

Sure, the Wall Street downturn will affect NYC prices in the short-term, but if you think there will be a 30% decline in a year then you are clueless. The market demographics simply contradict your crazy assertions. If you really look at the numbers, the mortgage related debt problems will work through the market for the next 6-12 months, at which time the market and economy should be poised for an upturn. The worst-case scenario is a 5-10% decline in overall real estate values, and even that scenario is less likely than one in which the market remains stable.

#73

I'm in love with you #72! #71, not so much.

#73- You must be attrated to people who are wrong and enjoy pain. lol

Love you right back #73!

1 stop from grand central. 2 stops from Union Square.the existing 5 buildings have more than enough people for an ambience.

E2 has shops at the bottom which are opening to an amish market and talks about a duane reade and starbucks. not to mention e1 just opened a restaurant and more shops are opening on vernon. farmers market on 48th (3 blocks away)

I live here and it's extremely convenient. who hangs out in their own block in NY? You can jump on the G is you want Brooklyn. Super convenient. Also the apartment price I pay now gives me space and amenities that I would never find in the city. It's a great place to come home to. People who bash it obviously dont live here.

We all know you just like to hear yourself talk. Where else are you going to get such awesome skyline views from your window? There's parking in City Lights and E2 that is available for non residents.

You guys are like the people who critiqued williamsburg cause it was industrial. Then what? prices go up, those who bought / moved early arent complainig. time to buy is now.

As long as you are happy. What makes me happy is saving money. My arguement is if you are looking at this moment in LIC or anywhere else in NYC you should just wait. No one can deny that there is a greater risk of a further downturn then up. And as for LIC this should be an even bigger concern. Dispite what people say it's not manhattan and will have a greater drop in price. If you don't believe me just look at the buildings that are having a tough time selling units.

I'm exhausted...........This like having another job.

#77 face it you were never in the market for these condos. You are not saving money. If I had to guess I would say that you are one of the LIC oldtimers who are jealous about losing their views and hoping that the economy goes down in flames as that is the only shot they have of putting the genie back in the bottle.

#69 if what you say is true why do I have 3 commiment letters from 3 different banks on my upcome LIC condo purchase? I'm putting 10-20% down BTW.

77 - Why make up silly statements? What buildings are not selling in LIC? They all are selling well. Look at the comment from #50 above.

Interesting thread...

I have to say, I am inbetween on this entire downfall of RE in NYC and LIC. I do think prices will go down for a short while (6 month - 18 month), but I have to agree with both #69 and #70. I do see some RE neighborhoods going down 20-30% in the next year or so, but none of which anyone is concerned with. Might be on the front cover of the NYPost, but I dont' expect to see a population decrease like the one we experienced in the 1980s. And yes, for what people consider prime locations, we should only see a 10-5% drops at most. There will be some desperate sellers, but they will barely bring down the average.

Of course, this is a matter or opinion and I will prolly be wrong. It's just too hard to predict real estate.

Almost all of these units sold more than 6 months ago and before main street saw the tidal wave coming. The Powerhouse and the Foundy are the first two that got caught with their pants down so to speak. Don't waste my time or the time of others trying to tell us that the market has not change. You are using sales of units that were sold over 6 months ago. Some of those units were sold over 2 years ago and would never move at those prices today. Your not listening. My point is the market has change for the worse. When some of these units close in the next few months they will already owe more then what there condo is worth.

#83 - Time to get your facts straight. Powerhouse only started sales six months ago. Foundry started 4 months ago. Hunters Point and 10-63 started selling in September. Powerhouse has sold over 70 units (at over $750 psf), Foundry has sold 20 (in a much smaller building) at initial asking prices, Hunters Point is over 50% sold in two different buildings, 10-63 has sold 33 out of 41 units and had price increases, 10-50 is sold out and sold units as late as this January for over $750/psf. Even Crescent Club, which is in a less desirable location than the other buildings, started sales in October and has sold over 65 units with many price increases.

You really shouldn't comment when you have no clue what you are talking about.

84 - amen - you articulated it much better than I did earlier.

And I am not one to disagree that the market is slowing - but let's real, slowing is different than crashing.

slowing is not growing as fast -- I could even agree with very slight decreases (worst case scenario) -- but the sky is not falling.

As far as the price reductions on Powerhouse goes, they were way way overpriced to begin with. Then the news of the Hunters Point South development was announced and that affected them too.

Additionally, PH was overreacting to the price *increases* at the Toll Bros. building, which, initially, were underpriced.

The powerhouse started to sell six months ago and have only sold about 5 units over 1M. Most of the units sold were sold fast. Since the market turn it has hardly moved. And by the way the building still has over 100 of the most expensive units left on the market. I have seen some of the 2 beds/ 2bath units drop its's price by over $150,000. It's you my friend that is the one who can't see the forest through thr trees. The Foundry sold 20 units. That's a joke. They have sold only 2 listed at $1m OR BETTER. Hunters Points buildings sold 50% , congrats that just means the the other 50% will be on sale real soon. So what you're really saying is that the Powerhouse still has more that 60 % to sell, The Founry also has less then 50% sold and 10-63 started to breakup units to make them more affordable for potential buyers. Not to mention 10-63 is perhaps on of the worst buildings in LIC. The cresent club is a joke I wouldn't take it for free because I don't want to get stuck paying the CC in a terrible location. That building will never sell out. The rest will be rentals. So what your claiming as a sucess is actually you admitting that all these units combined are at best 50% sold. I will not even argue your numbers and assume you are correct. That means that 50% of these units face the difficult task of being sold in the crisis and this what you would say is your arguement. I would like to thank you fore highlighting my point. Now factor in EC3 with nearly 184 units. Stop trying to say that there is no problem an accept the fact that you made a bad financial decision. Don't try and convince others to do the same.

I predict EC3 will sell out in a few months.

87 - shut up and go post on curbed where someone may actually want to hear what you have to say. Thanks.

yeah 87 - glass half full? Or half empty? I don't disagree, that's grey area. But you are a moron, that's black and white!

yes, 87, your only defense for the two buildings that are nearly sold out is that they are the worst buildings around; what? Are you a two year old? Clearly not everyone agrees with your stupid opinion or else they would not have bought enough units to sell out the building.

What happened to all the people that said the Powerhouse was ging to sell out in a few months. It was the "it" building. Everybody had to live there. It was going to have a spa. Some unit have 16 ft. heights. And on and on and on........ The building still has over 100 units left to sell and there is no one even showing interest at these prices since the new year started. The credit problem is just starting. Talk to me in 6 months. I also think EC3 is going to be a beautiful building, but not at those prices. NO way, No how. Besides if you by in EC3 you have to keep some spare money for cabs to and from the train. Good luck when it 10 degrees out and you and your partner have an 8 block walk.

6 blocks to The View, not 8 or 7.

Believe me, no one thought the Powerhouse would be the 'It' building. At least no one I know that lives in LIC. Not when they lost the bid to make it into a tower and they started knocking down the 4 smokestacks. Then it began a another short little poorly designed glass covered building. Once people saw it was surrounded by rentals and most apartments would have no view whatsoever, they stopped buying. That's one place that will never sell out.

Way over priced.

We should stop paying attention to #92's comments. He obviously is a dim-witted person who is trying to convince others that he is intelligent. His comments are so nonsensical that he has been exposed.

94 - I agree - I stopped paying attention a while ago.

eventually the person will pack-up and go back to curbed.

Guess who's back. You guys kill me. You guys remind me of a children who don't get their way. Try keeping an open mind and I just might save you money. Ofcoure if you bought already that would explain your anger. I wish all on this site the best of luck. I have no ill -will toward anybody. My goal is to share opinions about market trends and talk about various speculative neighborhoods. That's all. All opinions are welcome. I'm man enough to listen to everyone. I do think LIC has potential. It has a way to go, however it on the right track. I just think that the priceses are to high. I also believe that a price of a unit is worth what ever anybody is willing to pay. Last year people were willing to pay alot more then they are today.This is not a debate, it's fact. Units move at a greater pace last year then they are now. It not that hard to figure this out. The only question is when will any area meet it's selling point. This is what is debateable. The longer people wait to buy the more prices fall. OK. I guess If you guys really want this to be a forum filled with people that don't respect others opinion then I'll leave and send opinions to various newspapers warning people about LIC's short comings as a neighborhood or lack there of. Well Good by.

I can't beleive you guys read that and thought I was going to leave. If you fell for that, then I have an overpriced condo in LIC to sell you. HAHAHA. Come on guys that was funny.

There are a few reasons why there haven't been as many sales this year as last and some have to do with the state of the economy. But also, most of the 1 bedrooms are gone in LIC. Also, the best units are usually found and purchased when a development opens it's sales. As a development sells it's best units and the inferior ones remain, sales will slow down a bit. Also, people that bought 1-2 years ago, could not have gotten the same units at a discounted price today or 6 months from now. Many people bought for way under $700 PSF and those levels are not coming back down. Condos will be scooped up by people waiting on the sidelines as soon as they hit $675 PSF (if they ever do)which is still way above what people paid at many of the first developments. You also cannot compare 2007 and 2008 because 2008 hasn't had a summer yet. We're only through 3 months and it's been a crazy time for the economy. The longer people wait to buy, the fewer options they will have, the more rent they will pay and the more they will be gambling with what price they are buying for. My opinion is that if you have the money for the downpayment and closing costs, you would be silly not to buy. Another thing, I can't believe all the talk about the amenities in LIC. I have lived here for about a year now and there are plenty of restaurants and things to do. It is not Manhattan but I don't think it should be expected to be either. In a few short years, it will be a great addition to NYC and it's incredible neighborhoods. If you don't want to be a part of a transforming neighborhood because there is not enough to keep you buys, I understand completely but for the sake of those living here, the investment you're making will be worth the wait.

#96 - do you have a job? You seem to have a lot of time on your hands....

#99- this IS his job! I hope it pays well.

Hey 96 and 97- Lighten up. Shouldn't you guys be out celebrating the coming of the new "it" building EC3. I mean since the old "it" Powerhouse has failed. Don't you guys have to handout fliers or something along Vermon BlVD. Oh I can't wait to see how long it takes for this building to start lowering prices. You are better off renting at EC2. Besides its only 7 blocks to the subway (not 8 like EC3) and it's the one you would have to Park at anyway. So the way I see it, instead of helping EC3 save your downpayment , closing cost and interest on your $600,000- 1M loan and rent. The views the same, the walk shorter and you can park your car in your own building. Now if you were really smart and rent at Avalon and be only 5 blocks from the subway. WOW I could go all night. Bring it on fella's. Just face facts EC3 "you got a little out of line". I know you looked at what some morons paid at 5sl over a year and half and thought that you could get the same. Just one problem, even stupid people have limits.

Hey, interesting information an afinecompany's site:

http://afinecompany.blogspot.com/

He seems to ahve more information than most of us. Also clears up some of the myths.

101 - your not very intelligent, are you. like 10 people have responded to you about the powerhouse - everyone agrees that it was not the "it" building. If you don't have anythign else to add - then go ahead, keep posting you crap, people can read over it and listen to the useful comments.

I think that the view will be very nice. The terraces and full floor apartments will be amazing.

by the way, the site gives some claritya round the abatement, land lease, $psf - worth a read.

The waterfront park extension is giong to be amazing. It is nice to see that it is progressing as well. There are some nice shots in the blog. I clicked on the pictures, they enlarge.

the terraces are amazing, those lower ones must be close to 800 sf.

A Fine is a broker and has his agenda. He claims that since the east-facing side of the building will be only hallways, all units will have amazing Manhattan views. Really? Er, the southern view of the building pretty much sucks. All you can see are those horrendous rental towers. The northern view will be good for about a year or two, but then Rockrose's new rental buildings will obstruct that view as well. So only the west-facing apartments really have protected views. Don't get fooled.

Hey 102- So if you never thought that the powerhouse was not an "it" building than what is an "it" building to you? Clearly you must have an opinion on which building is the place to buy. Stop the nonsense. The Powerhouse was praised all over the area and the blogs as the building to wait for. Now it may never open. Look at that place. It's so far behind schedule I heard people bought condos in Williamsburg until their condo is ready at the powerhouse in 3 years.

hahahahaha

Hey- Do you guys think that the person who paid $1.9M for that Powerhouse condo with the terrace with direct views of manhattan know that he/she will have those views for about a year. Depending ofcourse when the Powerhouse is finished. Actually by the time it's ready the view may be gone. If that condo was on the market today, it wouldn't geta bite at $1M with knowledge of the view going away in about a year or 2.

The Powerhouse is one of LIC's great projects

Let's be clear, no one ever liked the Powerhouse. It was doomed from the start.

The sourthern terraces of Rockrose's condo will have almost decent views...if you bought on the 'northern'-facing side of the shared terrace that are on the southern facing side of the building...too complicated?!?

Yeah, it is, but what can you do. What's done is done.

No one has ever claimed any building was the "premier" building in LIC, until this one really.

The top floor units at Powerhouse facing west will probably always have some kind of good view, even if buildings go up across the street. And it is highly unlikely anything will be built in front of Powerhouse for at least five years. It is amazing how many clueless people make uninformed comments on blogs.

they are definitely going to build in front of the powerhouse though. That much is certain, and it's just a matter of time.

Does anyone have a link to the whole Rockrose EastCoast development site? Tried to get it off queenswest but it's only a tiny picture there. About a year ago there was a great renedering of the whole waterfront, I think it was even interactive but I'd settle for a rendering of the site plan. I am interested in what is going up to the north of the View.

#113 -- I haven't been able to find anything online, but if you live in LIC or have time to visit, there is a scale model in the leasing office of 4705 Center Blvd. (East Coast 2) That should give you a good idea of how the area will look in the next few years.

thanks #14. I do live here and will stop by. I thought the high rise waterfronts going north were finished with the View. I only wish.

Regarding the Universally Acknowledged Upcoming Implosion of RE* prices in NYC:

1) Does anyone have a nuanced understanding between individual resales and large projects? A person who has to sell a home in order to make a work-related move or some other life adjustment is under pressure to move and has to negotiate with a buyer. Ditto for the builder of a place with a small number of units, since he has obligations and must move on.

On the other hand, a large project like the many hi-rise condos we see all around the city isn't quite the same. If the developer doesn't get his asking price, he's at liberty to buy units and rent them until he gets his price. Also, while the small seller is afraid of the bank, it is the bank who is afraid of the large-scale developer,

given the obligation involved. That allows the developer to call the shots,

doesn't it?

2) The mere fact that I'd like to get a place listed for 1.7M doesn't mean that

the passage of time will soften up the seller. I suspect that someone who was

looking in the 2.2M range and is suddenly "poor" will now snap it up for the

asking price. That doesn't do me any good, does it?

So the question becomes "how do I, Joe Nosebleed, take advantage of all of this fallout?" I have some money in the bank, there's a glut of new product out there, I read of armageddon daily, yet I can't seem to make use of my knowledge or relative flexibility.

Is anyone in the press reporting on this story from "my" point of view? I can't be alone.

*Let's call it UAUI-RE . I propose it be pronounced "wowee-ree"; maybe we'll get something started.

woo hoo #116, you're started a trend!

Actually #116 you do make a good point, however I don't know that theory to be fact. I'll tell you why I believe why new develpoments don't lower prices at a faster than expected pass. The developers are stuck with difficult problem. Many units in these deveopment have contracts that were agreed to over 1-2 years ago. The developer realizing the market is dropping has a problem, however the solution is not so simple. If the deveoper thinks that he needs to lower prices he just can't for these reasons. First if the developer lowers units to a price less than people agree to pay 1-2 years ago it will put the contracts pending aty risk. If you lower units to better move in a bear market the apprasials for the scheduled closings will come in far less. That means the developer runs the risk of buyers not getting the necessary loan amount. The bank just says no. And you are stuck with coming up with more money or getting the developer to lower the price. This puts the devoper in a situation in which it has no choice but to wait until pending contracts are signed or run the risk that it loses pending contracts.

Hense many units will be reduced once many buildings close on their units and people are in the builings. What will contribute to the price reductios will be both new owners who just can't afford today what they did 2 years ago and remaning units by the developer will be reduced with out risking pending contracts. Ofcourse they can also kep the units rent the rest. Which is not a building I want to live in anyway. If I bought a 1M unit and then found out that 50% of the building were renters i'd be pissed.

All of the LIC new developments will be 80%-100% sold by the times the buildings are completed and people start moving in. Your analysis doesn't hold up 119.

How in the world can you say that All of the LIC new developments will be 80-100% sold by the time the buildings are complete. What is your analysis. There are buildings like the Powerhouse and the Foundry that are not even 50% sold. And if they didn't sell those units over 6 months ago they would probably be less then 10%. You heard it here first. Some of these buildings may never be completed or there will be a fire sale in the next 12 months. Some developers are having their financing pulled or have had their own loan financing shoot through the roof. Take a good look at the work activity at the Powerhouse and you will see very little being done. People don't work for free. This is a signof a project that is in serious financial trouble. If there was money there would be workers there 16 hours a day. They have gotten to the point where they can only hire a few contractors at a time. It's way over budget with an endless finish. Wake up they thought that there average units per squar foot would be over $800. The market right now for the area is $600-650. A penny more in this market and those units will sit for as long as the developer can hold out. The only way this building starts to move will be at $550. And then you may see some interest. I would advise anybody that is considering to sign a contract in this area not to do it. Some of these developments will fold. You run the risk of losing your downpayment.

121- Why do you keep saying the same incorrect things after it has been shown over and over in prior comments that you are factually wrong? You keep saying that all the apartments were sold over 6 months ago when these buildings only began sales approximately 6 months ago. The facts are that all the units in the buildings discussed above have had the bulk of their sales over the past 6 months. 50-80% sold in 6 months at asking and increased prices is excellent. Buildings don't try to sell all their units right at the beginning of sales. They release units in phases.

As for Powerhouse, what is your evidence that work has stopped? If the exterior is done, you are not going to see all the interior finishing work happening by walking past the building.

Do you not mind that you are one of the most nonsensical commenters on this site?

The Powerhouse is within my direct view, and I can assure you that there is work going on there daily. And yes - they are now working mainly on the interior.

Why don't you give me the breakdown on a monthly basis for units sold. My guess is you can't. Why? Well because you don't have the slightest clue as to what is and what's not sold. I still don't see how you can say these properties are 50% sold. Please stop telling your lies to people who are thinking of buying in LIC. You are going to cost people $100's of thousands of dollars just because you need to make a buck, try getting a real job and stop living off other peoples hard earned money. One more question. When was the Powerhouse scheduled completion date? I'll give you the answer because it I don't you will just make it up anyway. It was to be completed late 2007. Look at the building. It won't be done until sometime in 2009. What a joke.

PowerHouse Condominium

Up to PowerHouse

The Powerhouse building is build on the old Penn Station powerhouse and the Schwarts Chemical factory in Long Island City, New York.

PowerHouse Rendering

Building B/C51st Sreet & 2nd Ave

400 luxury condos

Designed by Karl Fischer

CGS Developers of Brooklyn

Apts 1,100 ft or so going for $550 -> $700K

------Under Construction 2005 to late 2007---------

124 - How many foolish statements can one person make? You sure are comical, I'll give you that.

Look on streeteasy.com, it lists the date that every unit went into contract. So who is the clueless one??

Hey 124- Guess what rumor on street easy that EC3 is going to be 50% rental. How does that make you feel. Still think everything is great in the real estate business. The building doesn't have a chance at $800 sq ft. Views or not. Face the fact that this is a terrible time to buy second only to those who bought 6 month's ago. Sorry buddy you lost a lot of money. Enjoy you upside -down mortgage.

" Guess what rumor on street easy that EC3 is going to be 50% rental "

Where did you see that? I looked around on streeteasy, but didn't find the thread. Can you supply the url?

People inquiring about the property are being told that the building will be 50% Rental. I didn't start this rumor. It was posted by the name of "lobo" on street easy. I guess people are starting to figure out that it's much cheaper to rent in EC1 or EC2 than to put $100's down and pay CC's and a large mortgage. Besides they can also park their cars in their own building and swim in the pool in EC2. Prices have got to drop to about $700 sq ft. for this building to sell. I think they should just rent the whole thing. This is may be why they are taking longer to start offering units. I can't wait to see 5sl go to closing and see how many people put their units right back on the market. It's going to be interesting summer.

128 is the same person who posted the rumor on Streeteasy.

128- Your wrong again, not surprising.

"People inquiring about the property are being told that the building will be 50% Rental."

They didn't tell that to me when I inquired, though to tell the truth, I didn't beg the question. The conversation (conversations, really -- I had two or three) always went straight along the lines of plain old condo.

Right now Harlem is developing in its own, pretty exciting way. Prices are between high 500s /sft to mid 700s. More established residential neighborhoods on the east and west sides go for 800s and 900s, while glamorous glass is asking over 1100s, right up to 1600s.

Well, where does that leave the LIC waterfront? On the one hand, it's peripheryville (no insult to those who know and love her). On the other hand, it's an upcoming riviera, more convenient to LI and midtown than Brooklyn. So there are reasons it should be cheaper than glamorland in the middle of town, but also reasons to be more costly than anywhere else.

My original question still holds, then: what could make Rockrose reduce prices? If a nervous bank or group of investors forcloses, what'll they get? Unfinished buildings that they don't know how to complete? On whom would they unload it? Trump? I don't think he's famous for paying top dollar. EC3 isn't all that big, so people who hung on through the upcoming catastrophe (UAUI-RE, right?) will still be able to take them.

Sorry to have only one song there, I'm just trying to figure out an action plan.

Genghis, where you getting your numbers? There is no way you are buying into a good building on the east side or west side of Manhattan for close to 800psf. The general minimum nowadays is near 1000psf. Glamorous glass (I like your phrase) is minimum 1300psf and more into the 1500-2100psf range. The range for new developments in Harlem is fairly broad, with the top-priced buildings asking over 1500psf, though there are places in the 650-800 range.

Genghis- I think you are on the right track in your analysis. I was told be a reliable source that the building will sell as condo. However they plan to either go 50-50 on the rental end. My best guess will be they test the waters in this terrible market and when they can't move 25% of the buliding they will just rent the rest. So just be careful because you find yourself paying about $500 over the average LIC price for a building that will have more renters than owners. My opinion is that LIC is worth about 600-650 a sq ft. If I were you and you do decide that LIC is where you want to be I'd wait for at least the next 12 months. There will be many options in the future including new development that will open. Wait and see how many units are flipped for various reasons. You may get a great deal.

Be patient. The NYC real estate market will not tumble overnite. However it will over time. This could save you hundreds of thousands of dollars. Just ask yourself , Would you buy a stock that is projected to go down.( Assuming ofcourse your not shorting it.)

If you build it they will come...with all the residential condos going up, the restaurants and grocery stores will come...LIC is Chelsea 10 years ago.

Keep building and see price tumble.

Looks like there maybe a new "premier" building to give The View some competition. It is the tallest condo in LIC, 7 stories taller than The View and much closer to all the transportation.

The website is:

www.thestartower.com

"The Star Tower on LIC's North Side is preparing to open for sales, if the launch of it's website is any indication. The Star Tower is across Hunters Street from the Roe corporation's successful "Fusion" condominium. The building will be located at the site of the defunct "Long Island Star" newspaper. More details coming soon....

http://afinecompany.blogspot.com/2008/04/coming-soon-star-tower-lic-north.html

"

I stopped by sales office this week. My view of "the view" as follows:

CONS:

- Having an unobstructed view of the city is clearly nice, but building is considerably overpriced for the area / similar offerings (2B starting at 1.1m)

- No on-site gym: buyers can use facilities at building next door (4705) but who knows if that building will go condo 5-10 years from now, so you may end up not having a gym at all

- No on-site parking

- Wood cabinetry in bathrooms looks cheap

- Not many floor plans available, some are awkwardly shaped

- Not many amenities on site (there will be a bike room which they will be selling spots for, though)

- Expected move in date Q1 09

- Wooden floors, appliances and fixtures are standard, not what you'd expect for the price

PROS:

- City views

- AC control in each room

GENERAL COMMENTS:

- Sales staff rude and not very knowledgeable. if this is how they treat "friends and family", can you imagine customers?

- Sales force not very in touch with reality, based on their comments that "prices will only go up from here"

- No handouts or price list...they did give us a cold bottle of water though

CONCLUSION:

- Building itself does not stand out from other offerings in the area. For a 2B apartment, the surcharge for the nice city view represents roughly 300-400K, thus, the price is in the name.

Here is the problem:

Americans are clueless on the use of a calculator, even people with Masters degrees are at a loss.

$800,000 requires an income of $5000 A WEEK $1000 a workday to afford in normal times.

So this will end in a disaster, because all the high income stock brokers et all. are being laid off as we speak very very quietly......they are paying people for a gag order...shhhh or we will sue for your severance back.

What LIC needs is JOBS, Not $10 starbucks jobs but real jobs, LIC is DEAD after 6pm look at all the FREE parking available and on weekends and holidays....

Why are there no businesses coming to hunterspoint that are open 18-24 hours except 1800 mattress That will be the biggest mistake of this whole mess, there is plenty of room for manufacturing jobs heck even IT jobs...but nothing is coming into the area. It will always be a commuter stop.....

Like a suburb, no body shops in Darien or Scarsdale during the day during the week ..no foot traffic... and the bars will close at midnight cause they have to get up for work...