The answer’s not blowing in the wind at Queenswest, but something else is
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Good morning liQcity readers. We’re back to bring you some footage of the toxic dust kicking up on the Queenswest development site. See those tents in the video? Supposedly they facilitate the toxic remediation that Rockrose is required to perform on the site before they can build more residential towers. That particular site used to host a refinery, and like much of LIC, the soil is extremely toxic.
So the question of the morning is: should that dirt be blowing around hither thither? Supposedly it should be tamped down (perhaps with water?) in order to prevent exactly what’s evidenced in the video. Clearly that’s not happening. Obviously to shoot such a video, one has to be within smelling radius, and it’s not flowers and peaches.
There’s a business idea for LIC entreprenuers: respirators and other toxic dust survival gear. Maybe they’ll start carrying them at the ensuing Duane Reade on the compound.
It’s probably unreasonable to think that any remediation effort is going to completely eliminate the long-term health threat to the stew of hazardous materials dumped in that ground for 100-plus years. What’s even more surprising to me is that people moving into the buildings there aren’t even aware they are taking a calculated risk.
I had NO IDEA that this was an issue…. I have lived here since last September.
Not going to renew my lease, that is for sure.
Very few people realize the severity of this situation. It’s for real. I think it’s more of an issue now than it was before, since all the soil is being moved around and dug up. So things are becoming airborne. When it’s just sitting in the soil untouched, unless you lick the ground maybe, it probably isn’t hurting anyone.
I’m shocked that new residents don’t know that the waterfront was chockablock with some of the nastiest polluting industries — oil refineries, coal tar plants, paint and varnish manufacturers, and others. Did you think these were fallow farm fields just waiting for towers to be built on them? I suspect that condo owners, like those in Citylights, don’t like to talk much about the problem because they believe it could jeopardize the value of their properties.
Information on the contamination on the Queens West site and what’s being done about it has long been publicly available through the community board and online. Just go to the EDC’s website and look for the studies performed for the site.
YEah and then on top of moving the dirt around, people are going to live on top of it. I would never live in Queenswest for that very reason. At least away from the water there’s a lot of houses that were never chemical factories.
Very scary
Someone please send this to the DEP and the EPA!
DEC is responsible for making sure the remediation on the site is handled properly. I believe they had to be called in when the stink of oil sickened people in the area a few years ago.
Eh, I don’t think living on top of it is an issue (you’re up in some building high above the soil) but yeah, breathing it in = not so good.
10, if you live on top of a brownfield site that isn’t cleaned up thoroughly, then it isn’t so good. Just go ask the people at Love Canal.
What is evidenced in the video could have occurred over the past week when we have had 2 cold fronts come barreling through with very high wind gusts. I would suggest that LiQcity visit the site with camera in hand on a normal day when the remediation field is in operation before drawing conclusions.
#12, So it’s OK to inhale contaminants on windy days? What’s your point?
#12, liqcity is not drawing conclusions – it’s a fair question I think. should that stuff be blowing around on any day? (windy or otherwise) NO. isn’t it their responsibility to take care of that? and what are they doing in those tents? what exactly is the remediation?
the point is that the video may have been taken at the end of the work day when the remediation operations were already closed down and there was no one there to do anything about a sudden wind storm. If this is happening every day under normal working conditions – then yes I agree that DEC should be called in to investigate the situation.
there’s a lot of cars parked there.
that’s true #16, but I still say that you can’t judge every day work conditions from one video that may have captured a sudden windstorm. I also understand that a second remediation tent has been set up over the past two days,
the defender is suspicious. maybe they work for rockrose? or they live in um… citylights?
Neither of the two #18. Just suggesting that a fair assessment be given before jumping to conclusions. Do any of you live where you can view the site on a daily basis? I don’t and that is why I choose not to pre- judge based on one video that may have been of an isolated incident.
Since it’s being asked, this footage was shot 2 weeks ago, on a semi-windy, semi-normal day, in the late afternoon. Let’s just say liQcity has no choice but to witness this site on a daily basis. Anytime the wind blows, so does the dirt. And yes, there is a fully constructed second tent now. But the dust still blows around considerably. Obviously on a windy day it’s worse. And on a less windy day it’s better. The only thing that helps keep it down, is all the rain of late. But the question still persists. Should we be worried about all that (toxic?) dirt blowing about? Based on the smell alone, it’s hard to ignore one’s instinct.
This has been the “ugly secret” of LIC for years. Even when remediation happens to industry standard they will still truck their dirt through the neighborhood without covering the trucks, or they start digging and wait to get caught. Can you imagine what would have happened if this was public knowledge when people were signing leases at any of the new buildings? Or when they bought their new luxury condos? I cannot wait to see what happens in 5 years when more children in this neighborhood end up with asthma and other breathing problems.
21, the conditions on the site have long been public knowledge. But not many new people bothered to find out for themselves. All they had to do is ask anyone in the neighborhood who used to play down by the river and come home with oozing skin rashes that would never heal or a coughing fit.
Thank you liqcity for clarifying when the video was shot and the fact that you witness the site on a daily basis. Had you done that at the outset, I would not have questioned the integrity of the video. BTW I said second tent when I should have said a third one went up at the beginning of the week. I do not know whether that will resolve anything concerning this problem. In the meantime, anyone who is concerned should be calling DEC instead of just talking about it. Suggest that they view the video on this site. 311 can probably connect you to DEC.
I’m hoping this gets enough bad press so they shut this operation down. They’ve been working at a snail’s pace over there.
You can find more information than you will want to know regarding the clean-up at this site — http://prod.trcimg.com/QWDCStage2/
Yuk.
Suspected contaminants at this site are petroleum, chlorinated solvents, other VOC’s, SVOC’s, metals, pesticides, and PCBs. These contaminants are impacting the soil, groundwater, surface water, and sediments. Soil gas is also a concern.
This from the DEC website
Numbers 16 and 17
‘http://www.dec.ny.gov/cfmx/extapps/derfoil/haz/results.cfm?pageid=3′
EC website
This video shows the site with the second tent not finished… I don’t think they actually started excavating, so this dust is probably just clean top soil from the landscaping south of the tents… funny that’s where the wind is from…
In any case, even when the remediation will be done, the land will still be toxic because they can only excavate so deep before the pressure of the east river infiltrates water into the land…
I’ve been living in EC1 for over a year now and I just found out about this…
I’m still kindov ok with it because I’m on one of the top floors on the other side of the building and I don’t spend that much time in the garden where the crap is…
I was about to buy in EC3… until I read the remediation action report that was in the offering plan… disgusting…. there’s still tons of crap under there…and at abnormal harmful levels… and what’s worse is that the DEC signed it off knowing that there’s still tons of nasty crap there… Just because they use a sub slab depressurization system that prevents the VOCs from entering the building… Not good enough for my standards… I’ll be moving back into manhattan as soon as I can…
#28 this is the reason why they try to keep it as quiet as possible out here. Everyone is so worried about property values and their own homes that they try to keep this all very quiet. I imagine that if this was ever in the NY Times there would be a larger exodus of residents from LIC. You have to wonder why no one built here for all these years?
This has been all public knowledge for years and years. Nothing to see here folks, keep moving along. Just like the apartments have been. People will always find a reason to bash LIC and this is just the latest thing. So don’t live here. Thousands of other intelligent people will want your apartment.
So this, combined with my broken window latch, explains why my apartment has been getting so dusty lately…
#28 & 29, how did you get offering plans for EC3, when they have not started marketing it yet?
Agree that there is nothing newsworthy here. Simple fact is that:
1) Whatever is being done is making the situation better, not worse. Let them finish it up as quickly as possible. The sooner they are done the better.
2) The site will be capped with another 40 story building, further mitigating the problem.
Don’t like it? Don’t move here. There are thousands of other people who are more than happy to live here.
Welcome home, Liqcity! We’ve missed you and were looking forward to a new topic to stir things up around here, just never imagined you’d intuit our wishes so literally! I just wonder how much these really adds to the toxicity levels? Newtown Creek has been seeping away for years (who knows what’s coming out of there?). Not to mention the thousands and thousands of cars slowing down/revving up at the exit to the Midtown Tunnel each day, and the demolitions of old buildings releasing who knows what into the air. This area will never be the cleanest spot on the planet, so how much should we be concerned about this “new addition” to local pollution?
Well, I guess this settles one thing for sure. Nobody believes the crap that some people are selling that the LIC waterfront is the place to be. I wouldn’t live in that shithole for a million years. With all that dust coming up its a wonder that City Lights residents don’t glow in the dark.
So this is what Eric Gioa is so happy he brought to the neighborhood? Liqcity is going to give LIC elected officials sitting on their asses nightmares.
To those of you saying “love it or leave it”, that’s not the point. you can still love LIC but face the real problems this neighborhood has to deal with. I’ll still live in LIC, but we and folks in Williamsburg etc too should at least be aware of the fact that we’re living on and breathing in toxins left over from the industrial era. That’s just a fact. It’s not LIC bashing, just dealing with a legitimate issue. Get over yourselves. Go lick the dirt.
So let me get this straight. Terrible pollutants are thrown into the ground on the entire waterfront for a century (or more). Then we eliminate the polluters, and completely seek to redo said same area. Said area is vacant for three or four years with topsoil blowing about regularly on days much windier than in the video and all of a sudden this is a “new” problem? As #30 states above, this is not exactly news. I agree that the current situation leaves quite a bit to be desired, but what I want to know is why was it perfectly fine to have the vacant portion of the lot flounder for multiple years and only have the remediation effort directly before the high rises are set to be built. Why wasn’t this project undertaken as soon as the title changed hands?
And while I second the “yuk” of #26 above, it is far from clear that the “petroleum, chlorinated solvents, other VOC’s, SVOC’s, metals, pesticides, and PCBs…” are having the effect that some above are trying to impute. I just don’t have a scientific basis to determine that.
That being said, it is obviously something that needs to be dealt with, and something that has been quite well know about LIC for anyone willing to find out or do a very minimal amount of research. I am just wondering if someone is actually going to suggest a better way to proceed.
Why do people keep mentioning how long this has been an issue? It’s irrelevant. The point is that more people live in LIC than ever, and this is news to us new folk. It’s clear the people who’ve been here 10+ years hate us all and think they know everything about LIC, and any news is old news. I’m glad this is being discussed now, even if that dust has been blowing around for years. I have kids, I live at the waterfront, and them getting asthma etc is a concern for me. If it’s clean topsoil blowing around, great. But it would be nice to confirm that, because if it’s not the case, then instead of worrying about liquor licenses, we should be talking more about the health of all LIC residents. Whether they’ve been here 5 minutes or 100 years.
I hear the View is not selling, is this dust issue affecting sales and why hasn’t the sales office “officially” opened?
When exactly did someone link the remediation of the waterfront area with these major health problems or the health of LIC residents generally? Did I miss something?
So, when will all those who are complaining and hiding behind “anonymous”, going to get up and physically do something about it? You can picket, go raise hell (respecfully, though) at meetings, personally go to the offices of elected officials, file official complaints, start petitions, write to the various news media, write to all of the businesses involved in these ventures, expressing your displeasure or outrage, organizing and grouping with, or pressing environmental agencies and organizations to join the action, and even beginning legal action if necessary.
Complaining on disussion boards may work with small businesses like a deli/grocery store, but to big businesses and/or government, it will mean nothing. It’s fine to express oneself on these boards, but if you don’t put the effort in and nothing gets done to rectify situations and resolve issues, then quit complaining.
Hiding behind “anonymous” lets people say what they want, without taking any responsibility for what they say, or who they affect. This is why they will never be taken seriously by business, government or even by people who do take responsibility for what they say and do.
Charlie.
Charlie, this is a discussion forum, not a meeting. This is exactly the place to anonymously express concerns, because quite frankly otherwise they won’t get out there. I do agree with your point though, of doing something AFTER complaining. But here, I think the point is to air grievances. I certainly had no idea the community board was anti-restaurants/bars on Vernon until I read this blog. Did I go to the meeting? Yes. This topic of airborne dust… I don’t know. I think it would be good to find out who is responsible and contact them. I don’t care what anyone says, I’m glad we’re talking about it at least.
Besides, regarding the anon thing. Charlie you’re still anon. Charlie who? you could be Frank in reality. Or Carol. You’re still anonymous.
If I lived in Citylights, Avalon, Rockrose or any of those buildings in the immediate vacinity of this I’d be all over my govenment officials on this.
I’m not sure what else you all expect to be done regarding the remediation. As far as I could glean, the cleanup effort on the site will, according to DEC, eliminate the potential health impacts from the contaminants in the soil. So be happy! Apart from the annoyance and short-term exposure to this stuff, you probably have nothing to worry about. If you choose to live anywhere in NYC — with its extremely high levels of air, noise, and other pollution — you are accepting a certain level of risk. Eat a few extra pieces of fruit, sleep 8 hours a day, quit smoking, don’t eat and drink too much, and exercise more. Those changes will do much more to extend your life than waving goodbye to LIC.
Hi Myrtle. In my post I said: “It’s fine to express oneself on these boards, but if you don’t put the effort in, and nothing gets done to rectify the situation and resolve the issue, then quit complaining”. Airing grievances is fine. just leave it at that, if you are not going to do anything to help solve the problem(s).
The Community Board is not anti-restaurant/bars. Anyone who applies for an on-premise liqour license must go through their community board first, before the SLA will finish processing the application.
Most everyone who’s been in Hunters Point for more than a few years, and who gets around and reads/posts on Queenswest.com, knows who I am. Do you read the posts on Queenswest.com? I’ve even posted my last name . I’ve been extremely active in the community, in the past. Amongst other things, I was on the Queens West Task Force Parks/Open Public Spaces Committe.
Most people post anonymously, because they don’t want to take responsibility for what they say. Look at all the ridiculous and moronic posts on Curbed, and other such sites. when people can hide behind “anonymous” they can say stupid things and talk trash. That is why Jake (Queenswest.com) instituted a registration policy, and no one can post anonymously.
You may think that I’m somehow anonymous, but it’s about what actually is, and not what you think it is. I take responsibility for everything I post.
Charlie.
“the cleanup effort on the site will, ACCORDING TO DEC, eliminate the potential health impacts from the contaminants in the soil. ”
Right, and I sure trust THEM…
In case anyone was wondering, most of the 5 boroughs is just as heavily contaminated. Want an even greater health risk? Go live near the Gowanus Canal. Dont want to be exposed to MTBE, get out of queens in general. There are a ton of spill sites. Dont want to be exposed to unknown VOC’s? Stay out of manhattan. I for one have every intention of moving to rochester. Guess what, polluted. Its the way our world is now. Stop bitching and let the remediation/capping take its course. Once the removal is taken care of you would basically have to dig down 10 feet and eat the dirt to get sick.
47 is right. Breathing the fumes of vinyl shower curtains, drinking from plastic water bottles, and eating crap filled with artificial colorings are more dangerous than the ground in LIC after its remediated. It’s the stuff you don’t think about much that’s killing you.
#48 sounds to me like a representative of Rockrose or another Citylights resident living in dellusion. That’s some pretty bad shit going on there.
49, I have no connections to Rockrose or Citylights. What would make you happy? You moved into a heavily contaminated industrial site that is being cleaned up by a state agency. Give the engineers who do this work some credit. They know what they are doing. When they are finished, you and everyone else will get to frolic on a piece of land that is at least as clean as anywhere else in this filthy hellhole of a city. Then you can find something else to obsess about. If that still doesn’t please you, you might be happier living inside an oxygen tent on a pristine desert plain someplace in New Mexico.
Here is what I found on EPA website. I am convinced that people who wrote it have more background in environmental issues than most of the people in this forum:
Soil Contamination
What kind of contamination is it?
Soil contamination is either solid or liquid hazardous substances mixed with the naturally occurring soil. Usually, contaminants in the soil are physically or chemically attached to soil particles, or, if they are not attached, are trapped in the small spaces between soil particles.
How did it get there?
Soil contamination results when hazardous substances are either spilled or buried directly in the soil or migrate to the soil from a spill that has occurred elsewhere. For example, soil can become contaminated when small particles containing hazardous substances are released from a smokestack and are deposited on the surrounding soil as they fall out of the air. Another source of soil contamination could be water that washes contamination from an area containing hazardous substances and deposits the contamination in the soil as it flows over or through it.
How does it hurt animals, plants and humans?
Contaminants in the soil can hurt plants when they attempt to grow in contaminated soil and take up the contamination through their roots. Contaminants in the soil can adversely impact the health of animals and humans when they ingest, inhale, or touch contaminated soil, or when they eat plants or animals that have themselves been affected by soil contamination. Animals ingest and come into contact with contaminants when they burrow in contaminated soil. Humans ingest and come into contact with contaminants when they play in contaminated soil or dig in the soil as part of their work. Certain contaminants, when they contact our skin, are absorbed into our bodies. When contaminants are attached to small surface soil particles they can become airborne as dust and can be inhaled.
How can we clean it up?
There are three general approaches to cleaning up contaminated soil: 1) soil can be excavated from the ground and be either treated or disposed; 2) soil can be left in the ground and treated in place; or 3) soil can be left in the ground and contained to prevent the contamination from becoming more widespread and reaching plants, animals, or humans. Containment of soil in place is usually done by placing a large plastic cover over the contaminated soil to prevent direct contact and keep rain water from seeping into the soil and spreading the contamination. Treatment approaches can include: flushing contaminants out of the soil using water, chemical solvents, or air; destroying the contaminants by incineration; encouraging natural organisms in the soil to break them down; or adding material to the soil to encapsulate the contaminants and prevent them from spreading.
Yes, It’s bad, but its being made better. I come back to my original point. Whatever was there has been there for centuries and no one made any effort to clean it up. I applaud the fact this this is happening. To get all self rightous about it now is hypocritical. Why was no one lobbying for a cleanup earlier? Where were all the so-called community activists and long-term residents when this stuff was being dumped into the soil? Now that they are trying to clean it eveyone finds their voice.
Will the city clean up everything? Probably not, but they will have left it in better condition than it was before. Finally and most importantly the entire area is going to be cemented over when a new building is put up. I’m saying you shouldn’t be concerned. Let take precautions to make sure its done right, but let them do what they need to. The sooner they stop digging our out there the sooner the contamination is removed and the sooner the land can be returned to a productive use.
Also #47 is right, personally I would never live in one of those renovated lofts which were used to store chemicals, paints etc. There are tons of them in all of the bouroughs. NY used to be a heavy industry town. Where are you going to run to LI where everyone gets breast cancer from the drinking water? NJ? Good luck its probably worse there.
On a side note, lets also mention Pepsi had a bottling facility on the grounds in question. Was bottling done there recently? Not entirely sure. They still had the syrup storage tanks. I am certain they bottle there in the past. Pepsi did not clean the area in any way before using the land.
People need to do their research on soil contamination. For instance, Dioxin contamination is very very serious (and accounts for most of the contamination in NY waterways). It affected an entire town in PA that was sprayed with contaminated waste oil (common for keeping down dust on dirt roads in the summer months). The town was abandoned until a very similar cleanup operation took place. They trucked the soil to special furnaces which super heated the soil to separate contaminants. Then after-burned the released contaminants. The result was clean soil. That town has since been converted into a nature reserve where plants and wildlife are flourishing. There have been no abnormal birth rates with the animals nor have there been congenital defects or anomalities. The soil removal was done to a depth of 10ft if I remember correctly.
As far as a connection to the area, I do work in the area but i have no relationship to the queenswest project. I have been around since long before the queenswest developement began and trust me the improvement in the grounds are exponential. The land was previously left to dumping and desolation.
The people on this thread trying to down play living next to toxic waste as insignificant are ridiculous.
That is unless of course they represent the sales offices of Rockrose or the Powerhouse or are one of the dellusional Queenswest.com crowd.
It is a good thing that the area is being cleaned up. It, however, is a bad thing that the way that this is being done is stirring up toxic waste and exposing nearby residents. Thank you Eric Gioa for representing the neighborhood so well and bringing this about.
And not for nothing I don’t trust for a second that they are actually cleaning the area to the extent that they say that they are. Judging from some of the dumbass posts from people trying to down play this above, it sounds like the toxic waste over on the waterfront has already gotten to some people’s brains.
52, I resent your implication that the “long-term residents” are somehow at fault for not protesting contamination issues everyone is dealing with today. By your logic, I suppose people living in Greenpoint are also to blame for not making Exxon clean up the creek or towns on the Hudson should have stopped GE from dumping in the river. I agree with your other points but found your gratuitous put-down of people who’ve been dealing with a lot of crap in the neighborhood for many years from the city, developers, industries, and now some new residents like yourself completely uncalled for.
#55 should have bought at Citylights
#55, 52 here. You are right it was gratutious.
57, I’d like to gratuitously funnel a barrel of contaminated waste oil down your smug throat.
You know the funniest thing? Your all here blaming the developers for something they didnt do. The developers didnt pollute, the oil companies did. How come your lashing out at those wh are, in all honesty, increasing values in the area?
There may be other reasons to criticize Eric Gioia, but the Queens West Development is not one of them. The QW development plans were in place long before his tenure as Councilman, and the developers knew from the outset that there would be extensive soil remediation.
BTW – It is because of the costly remediation that needs to be done that CUNY wants the variance for a taller bldng.
Funny. Whenever the dark side of the Queenswest development Gioia has nothing to do with it, but when the news is positive he tries to take as much credit for it as Al Gore gave himself for inventing the internet.
Gioia = an ahole who has been nothing but bad for LIC
#59 The developers also have some lovely properties with waterfront views of Love Cannal and Three Mile Island. Given that you don’t think that they should be blamed for what took place in the past, I’m sure that you’d love to live there.
What a ‘tard. I mean trying to put a positive spin on this is ridiculous.
Several people have developed asthma over the last few years
63, small particles from diesel and vehicle emissions that get deep inside the lungs are most likely to blame for asthma.
28 here for 30 and 32….
30 : I don’t bash on LIC… I love this place… I was trying to buy here… Just nothing worth the price except the view imho… but it sits on toxic land so I won’t buy in the view… and I AM leaving LIC… BTW, I really don’t appreciate you implying I’m dumb for leaving my spot for “thousands of intelligent people”… totally uncalled for… you don’t know me, my situation or anything about my decision…
32 : the view is open for sale for “friends and family”… I am neither… just got an apointment because I’m a tenant in EC1… did you walk in the sales office? did you call for an apointment? Not marketing it doesn’t mean it’s closed for sale… you just need to be proactive….
Anyone buying in that area is crazy.
#65 where is the sales office? If you just walk in will they talk to you? I have only recieved emails saying that they were going to start soon. I thought I would be among the first to have an opportunity to take a look.
just walk in. they’ll take you and show you around. priced too high.
and the land there was treated years ago. brand spanking new clean land is there now.
people buying at the view are going to have fun the next couple of years while those other buildings get built. that shit is loud.
Just walk in where? Is the sales office on site?
It could be worse:
http://curbed.com/archives/2008/06/20/more_black_gold_in_williamsburg_40_berry_street_oil_field.php
There certainly isn’t anything bubbling up to the surface in LIC.
#28 here again… now also 65…
70 and 67 : The sales office is in the corner of center blvd and 47th in the EC1 building…
69 : “the land there was treated years ago. brand spanking new clean land is there now” : this is not true… there is about 12-15 feet of brand spankin’ new land… under that is still polluted as hell… DEC knows about it but still signed off because Rockrose put in place the sub slab depressurization system… if you read the remediation action report in the offering plan, there are still areas of the parcel that have contaminents waaay above norms… thus why I gave them the O.P back and walked away the day before I was supposed to sign the contract…
sorry the last comment of my previous post was to reply to 68…
27 x 14 + 68 / 18 = 74 * 15%
Let’s see, I have a choice of living in Manhattan with ungodly amounts of moving (or worse, idling) diesel buses, trucks, and other vehicles. Or I can live in LIC with the chance that soil contaminants might be remediated to some of the highest environmental standards in the industrialized world and then paved over with concrete.
I’ll take my chances in LIC.
My only concerns right now are three-fold:
1. Blowing dust…although it appears that is being cleaned up. And I’ll try to avoid it.
2. My kid playing on the grass
3 Any potential impact on property values associated with environmental screw-ups
Seems like Rockrose has a pretty big financial incentive to either get it cleaned up right so the development will continue to grow in value over time. I supposed they could try to hide negative information, but it’s probably cheaper (in the long run) to take care of it now rather than risk having to deal with it later.
Asthma, cancer, and other stuff? I’d worry much more about the people working on the site and my own personal heart attack from eating all of this wonderful New York food. Oh yeah, and one of those helicopters crashing into my apartment building. ;)
looking at the people working there, I don’t think they give a rats a**. Not a mask in a 10 mile radius.
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holy crap…. that is scary. I have noticed the air around center blvd/47th smells a little bit like burned plastic lately.