Long Island City Condo Fire Sale has officially begun. Maybe.
Aah, we spoke too soon. Or too late, depending on how you look at it. More speculation about Long Island City’s condo market tanking is hitting the presses. Which doesn’t necessarily mean that’s what’s happening, of course. Just what’s being reported.
Condo Bust in Long Island City [Queens Chronicle]
Fire Sale at Vantage Purves [Elliman]
…and the worst part is that you can come to my numbers by using the mortgage calculator on the very same page where this jackass is making the claim.
So, you’d need something like a 4% mortgage! Maybe if Congress put the money in the people’s hands and offered those kind of incentives, we wouldn’t have a crisis, and wouldn’t have to give history’s biggest handout to the banks.
Yeah, 4% mortgages, that would actually do it.
What is needed are rock solid regulations, as big business (in general) has shown time and time again, that they are incapable of regulating themselves, and/or operating in an honest and honorable manner. There needs to be laws put into place which render powerful punishment, involving long prision terms, along with the heaviest of financial loses, and having the most minimal of plea bargaing as is possible, for those who deliberately violate such regulations, and for who misuse/abuse the public’s money and trust. Greed is an extremely powerful motivator, for one to do wrong, and is the main driving force behind the lust for power and control, that so many have. Making the consequences of such wrongs as dire as possible, is the only realistic way to act as a control.
Andrew should know what I am talking about. Banking and real estate are among, and quite possibly the top two of, the most strictly regulated types of businesses in New York State (and probably in most states). Any guesses as to why that might be? It appears that banking is still not well enough regulated. Handling the money and financial affairs of others, is very serious business, and is easily mishandled and abused; hence the need for stricter regualtions. By the way, the same applies to food and drugs.
Charlie.
Couldn’t agree more, but now I have to go calm down.
More regulation is not the answer. The mess that we are in is extremely complicated and I think that there is a rush to point fingers especially if you don’t understand what is going on. There is enough blame to go around on this, but at the center of this problem are the dopey people who didn’t realize what an ARM was, or that at some point when you take out a home equity loan every year to buy a car, go on vacation, buy a 60″ plasma, etc. etc. that at some point you have to pay the piper. You are right the problem is greed, it just that no one is talking about the greed of the American consumer. It’s much easier to point out at big bad businesss. What happened to personal responsibility?
Hi #6. What happened to corporate responsibility? There isn’t any. There never was much to begin with. That’s why more regulations definitely are a huge part of the answer. Haven’t you heard of the big financial mess going on? Lack of regulation is mostly responsible for where we are today. The big corporate ratings companies like Standard & Poors, Moody’s, and Fitch, are a big part of the blame too. They had Countrywide, Bear Sterns, AIG, and all the others, assigned AAA ratings; right up to the collapses. All of these “AAA” rated companies knew that they really weren’t, but took advantage of it anyway. This is just one huge example of corporate lack of responsibility and greed. Had everyone else known that these companies truly weren’t AAA rated, most of these (now) troubled business transactions either wouldn’t have taken place, or been worked out under different terms. By the way, who do you think pays the ratings companies, for the ratings? It’s the companies who are to receive the ratings. So much for “reputation”. So much for self regulation.
Don’t blame this on the American consumer. Corporate America pushes and pushes and is relentless when it comes to doing everything it can, to force more product, accomanied by more credit indebtness onto the public; which IS the middle and working class. You have to understand, when the American people are irresponsible, they lose big time. They can lose their home, their car, and their credit rating gets screwed up, and they are marked for ten years. When big corporations are irresponsible, their top execs get rewarded big time, to the tune of millions, the company gets bailed out, bought out, or it just closes up shop. The employees lose jobs, wages, and everything else that accompanies it. If American people as individuals are irresponsible; they screw themselves. If corporations are irresponsible; they screw the American people. See how it works?
Most people were looking for a home to buy and to live in, where they did not have a chance before the subprime offerings. Many thought it was a godsend, without knowing it was really a curse in disguise. The lending institutions were the ones who inticed and misled the public into believing that all would be well. If regulations were in place at the time, none of that would’ve happened, and we wouldn’t be in this mess; at least not in the same mess. Yea, you could say that they couldn’t have anticipated the fall in home prices. Actually they most likely did anticipate it. That’s what they pay in big bucks, for economic forecasters to do. They knew exactly what they were doing and what could possibly happen. They took the risks and screwed everyone. Again, I refer back to my previous post (#4). Oh, and why would you call the American people “dopey”, and not call these corporate executives “criminal” ?
The lending institutions had all the knowledge necessary, to avoid approving high risk loans. They pushed their sales force (otherwise known as “loan officers”), to lie, misinform, and to hold back on information which would have let the borrowers know just how risky they were. High risk increases the chances of things going wrong. They chose to ignore even common sense. It was their greed which caused the problems; so don’t give us any crap about the greed of the American consumer.
Corporate America has spent billions of dollars buying the votes and favors of politicians, in order to see less regulations. A lot of corporate types need to go to prision, for a very long time. So do a lot of politicians. In fact, some are already there, to include a war hero; so you really don’t know who you can trust to be your representative in government. The American people then get screwed, yet again.
You are correct in stating that the mess we’re in is extremely complicated. This newly passed bailout may or may not complicate things. Only time will tell for sure. If Warren Buffet can’t understand everything that’s happening, and well known economists have conflicting viewpoints, then the road ahead is truly uncertain, and might be very rough, for many people.
One of the biggest financial problems facing our country, is the hemmoraging of our money, to overseas concerns. That’s another, though a very connected, story.
Charlie.
Come on Charlie. Are you saying that the American consumer is too stupid to read contracts and understand what they mean? That they lack the basic understanding of math to understand that you can’t spend more than you earn each year? That they must be protected from of legitimate financial products because they are too weak minded to resist the come-on? That BS. You paint corporations as drug dealers pushing a product that no one can say no to. If that were true why aren’t we all addicted to drugs? Subprime was a godsend for many who used it responsibly. As with anything else, those that sought to abuse it they found that it was really a curse in disguise. Read quotes in the papers from some of these guys: “I wouldn’t have loaned me the money. And nobody I know would have loaned me the money. I know guys who are criminals who wouldn’t loan me that, and they break kneecaps.” Why isn’t this guy prosecuted for criminal fraud? Why must we all be at risk because of his excess? It’s popular to bash corporations, but it takes two to tango.
I save 50% of my salary for retirement, life’s unexpected emergencies, and major purchases. I only put on my credit card what I can pay in full when the bill comes. That means that I don’t often take fancy vacations, have the latest model car or toys, but I also have the piece of mind at night in knowing that I belong to some financial institution. So why should I now feel sorry for those who have spent years spending more than they earn amassing a mountain of debt that grows ever bigger because of high interest rates and fees?
Corporations are not getting a free pass. Have you followed the market recently? Trillions of dollars of equity has been wiped out. Companies are in bankruptcy, or in receivership. That is the harshest penalty for excesses and the biggest incentive not to do this again. People will be studying this mess for years to come, but I would not paint any of these failing companies as winners or as being “bailed out.”
Regarding the credit rating agencies I’m not willing to give them a pass, but consider that we are are living in extraordinary times. Due to the use of leverage, and derivatives a company no matter the size or how stable their balance sheet is only a few weeks from collapse. How relevant is a rating when thing can go from perfect to meltdown in the span of days? Unlike Enron, the executives of these companies made sizable investments in the stocks of their companies in the weeks leading up to their collapse. If the people running the company didn’t see it coming then what chance do rating agencies have?
Did you even take he time to understand what you were reading, concerning my post?
The money lost in the stock market will be made up in short order. In the long run, there will be no big losses, except for maybe those who had a lot of stock in failing companies, and for those who panicked. When you get down to basics, investing is nothing more than gambling. You take chances, and you can gain or lose. You need to learn more of economics. It’s a credit crisis. The stock market dip, was just a sideshow, in the big financial picture. By the way, the drug pushing analogy was ridiculous.
I’m not saying the American consumer is stupid. You’re the one who said they were dopey. Many Americans, just take things as they see them, or as they are presented to them. It’s not a matter of being “dopey”, as you say. It’s more a matter of trust. That is how they are manipulated. Of course there will be those individuals who will try to take advantage of those, who are trying advantage of them. Like I said, the lenders knew exactly what they were doing. Anything that can go from perfect to meltdown in a matter of days, as you state, was not perfect, or even close to it, for a long time. The execs had seen it coming, but took the risks anyway, and they ultimately didn’t care, because they knew that they were to walk away with millions, in the end. There was one CEO (I don’t recall the name or company), who got over 13 million, after being on the job for only 3 weeks. That is sickening.
I was going to go much farther in explaining my viewpoints and other things. I am however, not going to, because I am getting the impression that you are a hard core conservative who will defend big business at all costs. I could be wrong, but I don’t think so. You are caught up in the blame game. In this case, it’s blame shifting. The blame falls squarely on those who control the money and the economy, and that is not the American people. I just see you coming back at me, time and again, trying to counter everything I say. As an Independent and Centrist/Moderate, I have no desire to get involved in the same kind of discourse that is the hallmark of the two party system. So, don’t take it personally.
It is nice to hear that you personally are a financially responsible person. More people should be that way.
Charlie.
At $600 psf it hardly a fire sale. That was the original price they sold at.
I just want rents to come down!
Charlie,
No offense but you are making yourself out to be the same ass that you made yourself out to be on the bike thread. #8 read what you are saying but simply disagreed with you. I do too.
If you get off of your soap box where the world is black and white, good and evil, the banks that failed where not the primary lenders of the failed mortgages but rather provided a secondary market for funding. That system has been in place for decades. You invest in the S&P 50 and in doing so benefited from that system as well. If you apply your own logic, you and every other investor are part of the problem, so spare us the whole blame thing on coroporations.
You see #12, you missed the point too. He may have read what I had written, but it appears that he did not understand it; you either. It’s all about corporate money buying political favors. What kind of foolish statement is “more regulation is not the answer”? It’s the lack of regulations that allowed the problems to happen. All of the economists seem to agree (at least most of them) on that point. So where did you get your econonics degree, which makes you such an expert, to counter them?
By the way, why are you getting on my case? He was heaping all the blame for this crisis on the American people. If you agree with that, as you imply, then you will be only talking from one side, ever and only. You will only know how to blame the other side, of whatever your political persuasion is.
Oh, and in the bike thread, I was defending myself against attacks and insults. You were/are probably one of the instigators. Look how you start your post (#12). You start it off with an insult, just like Townie. You give me crap, yet you stay silent about the one or ones who did the attacking and insulting. For all I know, you could be Townie, or one (or all) of the others, who don’t understand how to speak without using at least one insult. If you have this need to insult others, to try to prove something, then you’re not much of a man.
Your statement was nonsense. Try thinking before you write.
Lastly, These comments boxes are soapboxes. That’s what they are for. Wake up and smell the coffee. I can preach and speak what I want, when I want; unless you plan on doing something to prevent that.
Charlie.
#12, when are you going to understand that “Charlie” is the ultimate mediator of this website? He says what’s what, and will stay up until 4 am to do so. If you call him or anyone else names, he will bestow his sensitivity training on you, as if this were a California commune, not a NYC neighborhood under siege by rapacious developers. So don’t react with passion, or suppose to have a credible opinion if you differ with him, and, above all, do not call anyone anything that may be construed as unkind, no matter how true it is. Although he professes to share his soapbox with you, this is a sorely misleading, because he doesn’t want to participate in a debate that he can’t control.
I’m sorry you’ve been compared to me; that stupid insinuation may add to your frustration. He’s done that sort of crap before, although he ought to know I’d need about four more commas than you used.
Hey Townie, read your own crap. Yoyu’re trying to justify insulting others, like it’s a right of yours. You sound like a kid. Maybe it’s because you are.
So, I think it’s time for you to get burped, and maybe change your diaper.
Keep that dictionary handy too.
Charlie.
Funny you should say that–I just changed it, but wait a minute, didn’t you mean that as an insult? Does that mean you’ve changed your mind? Now it’s okay to insult people? Or did I misunderstand yet again? I just can’t follow you. Should I look something up in my dictionary?
Charlie, blindly trusting everyone is dopey. I don’t see how you can say that no fault at all lies with the people who borrowed under these loans. You can’t put this squarely on the doorstep of corporate america. The first guilty party in the chain is the individual.
First up, let me deal with the crybaby. Townie, I am insulting you. Don’t you get it? I’m giving you a taste of your own medicine. You just whine, then insult others. When someone does it to you; you whine some more and say how unfairly treated you are. You dish it out, but you can’t handle it. Like I said to the other guy; you’re not much of a man.
Now, to you #17. There is a lot of blame to be passed around; including many of those who took the loans. You must remember something though. There wouldn’t have been loans for those with shakey credit to take, if the financial powers that be, didn’t dangle them out there, and misrepresent them to begin with. In any financial crisis, the first parties to look at are the big corporations and government. The American middle and working class drive the economy, but they do not control it; the big corporations and government does.
As I said before, if American people as individuals are irresponsible; they screw themselves. If corporations are irresponsible; they screw the American people.
So, I don’t put this squarely on the doorsteps of corporate America. There are way too many variables in this equation, and like I said, there’s plenty of blame to go around; but the first guilty party is NOT the individual. If the lending institutions approved the loans, knowing full well that they very well might become distressed, then they combined two wrongs into one package. The first one being the creation of the situation, then the acceptance and continuation of the practice; both with full knowledge of the potential negative outcomes.
Economists are the ones who are saying that lack of/insufficient regulation, is at the heart of the problem. The Justice Dep’t is doing criminal investigations of every company involved. Congress is holding hearings with major corporate execs. How does this tell you (and the others who’ve commented similarly) in some way, that the individual/American people is/are the first guilty party(ies) in the chain? Where’s the logic in what you are saying?
Don’t pay attention to Townie. Let’s have a discussion on this, and I guarantee you that I will not call you names. Townie and a few childish others find a sick need to show that they’re somehow empowered, by resorting to name calling . The only thing I ask, is that you do not come at me with a strictly Republican or Democratic slanted, one-side point of view. Their constantly arguing and fighting over party platforms, is what prevents Congressional work from being accomplished. It’s also a big part of what’s slowly destroying this country, amongst other things. Some people are so hung up on party loyalty, that they become gullible to all of those party beliefs, and will continue to argue a point, even if they’re the only one left who believes it. When I see that someone is going that route, not thinking for themselves, and not engaging in open minded discourse; I pull the plug.
So, we can disagree, and I appreciate your point of view; I just want to know that it’s your point of view, and not that of a politician or political party.
So Townie, did you get your diaper changed?
Charlie.
Charlie, this is my POV. I do not belong to any political party or affilation. I like to think of myself as an independant.
Congress is holding hearings and doing investigations with major corporations because they can’t or are unwilling to investigate the individual. Which politician will get reelected by saying what I am saying? The ones that get blamed in these situation are those who it is politically aceptable to blame. Subprime loans are a legitimate tool. Many have used them responsibly to buy their first home or emerge from bankruptcy. Should we outlaw them and not make this availble to those who can use it responsibly? I would also point out that a lot of regular loans are now going bad as well. Many of those who overextended themselves on credit did not do so with exotic mortgages. Should banks not have made those loans as well? Maybe we should outlaw lending all together.
I’m not saying some new regulations are not necessary, I just wanted to say that no one is talking about the role that the individual played in this. In recent years the saving rate for Americans was negative meaning that Americans not only spent all of their after-tax income but had to dip into previous savings or increase borrowing to finance their purchases. In Japan the average worker socks away 30% of his salary. In this country people are encourages to spend spend spend. Now the chickens have come home to roost. Yes it is all of our fault first. Once we accept blame for creating this mess I’m happy to move on to the corporations. Your argument is like a murderer blaming a knife manufaturer for pushing the tools of murder onto him.
Hey # 17/19. The murderer thing is a strange analogy, just like a previous poster’s drug analogy thing. Death and physical harm and destruction, are in categories of their own, so they have no business in a discussion of this sort. By the way, the knife mfgrs are not pushing people to murder. There are many things that can be done with knives. Bleach mfgrs (as another example) are not pushing people to drink their product, or throw it in other people’s faces. There is one only one thing you can do with a home loan. Comparing anything else, especially items with physical substance, to the selling of money (which is what a loan is), is like comparing ameobas to redwoods. Again I will say, that those who control the money have to take the first step in any transaction, good or bad. Anyway, who do you think encourages all these Americans to spend, spend, spend? Individuals cannot send a huge company into failure. Only bad business practices, or illegal dealings, or mismanagement, or any combination, can do that.
As far as overall credit practices go, it’s the big companies (again) who have created and fostered this type of behavior. A few generations have now been born and raised, thinking that this is the way things should be. they’ve been hit with this since they were/are old enough to watch TV.
Mortgage brokers work on commission, so they are hard sell. They’ve called up people who were in stable, long term mortgages which they obviously could afford. They then inticed, and successfully pushed many into refinancing, with interest only loans, which then backfired. That’s just one example of how the individual is not at fault. Anyway, if you push (espcially overpush) a product or service that you know has a high probability of going sour, then when things go wrong, you have to be responsible and take the blame. You’re sure as hell going to take the cheers, when you do things that go very right.
Congress, the Dep’t of Justice, or anyone else cannot investigate the individual, because the individual has done no legal wrong. The big financial corporations very well may have done things which are illegal. There’s a huge difference between people getting into financial situations which are beyond their means, and big businesses conducting overly risky practices, hiding or disguising them, and breaking laws. By the way, I do hear the news media talk about the individual’s responsibilities, and how they’ve contributed to the crisis. If you pay attention to the news (and I’m not trying to be sarcastic), it’s been adressed, so your point on this wrong.
Politicians will only listen to the public, when it’s very close to Election Day, and then only to a point. Politicans will listen to big business at anytime however, as they have with deregulation and their refusal to vote for new regulations; because corporate America has the politicians in their pockets. Bribing in this manner needs to be illegal. The sad thing is, that it takes our Congress (and state/county/local equivalents) to pass laws to make it illegal. Why would they cut off their gravy train? When big businesses bribe the lawmakers, to make it easier for them to potentially do wrong and take advantage of the people, who do you think needs to be blamed when things do go wrong; the individual?
Okay, let me ask you a couple of questions. Do you consider yourself more of a conservative or liberal? When you registered to vote, what did you register as? Also, what type of work do you do?
Could you use at least a pseudonym, so I don’t have to refer to you as #17, 19, etc.?
See, disagreeing doesn’t have to be disrespectful, as some others choose to do.
Charlie.
Who cares? Guys, step outside and slug it out there; spare us from listening to (I mean skimming) these tired old arguments. Are there any more real fire sale comments? If not, let’s just move on, then.
I disagree Charlie. There are many things that you can do with a home loan. You can buy a car, go on vacation, consolidate debt, pay off gambling losses, start a business, etc. etc. Banks are not pushing people to run up excessive debt anymore than a bleach manufacturer is pushing people to drink their product. Just because people do drink bleach doesn’t mean we need more regulation on bleach. There is a proper way to use bleach, just as there is a proper way to use debt. Unless you are telling me the banks held a gun to someone’s head and said sign, it’s a matter of personal responsibility or stupidity. Again you seem to be of the view that the average person is a lemming and buys because he is told to by the TV. Why hasn’t everyone fallen into this trap if it is true? I haven’t. You haven’t. Individuals can send a huge company into failure. We have witnessed it time and time again in the past few weeks. I don’t know if I will continue. You sound like of those liberal types who like to blame everything on everyone else instead of taking responsibility for your actions. #1 on my list of those to blame is the irresponsible American borrower. There are others on that list to be sure, but the #1 spot is reserved for him.
Hey #21, we’re discussing the current financial situation in this country. The same old real estate and CUNY comments here, have gone on and on and on, so don’t tell me about tired old arguments. We don’t care what you think. If you don’t like what’s being discussed, don’t get involved.
Charlie.
#21, I think their discussion is cogent to the fire sale topic, but it may take a while to get to the part where LIC becomes a ghost town, and it’s the buyers fault (huh?). I hope they do before somebody pulls the plug on the site. Oops, I have to go now.
I really would like you to answer the questions I asked. It was my mistake on the home loan thing. I was referring to an initial loan, not refinance, when I made my initial statements. The only individuals who can drive a big corporation to failure, are those within, not the public. They key word here is “drive”. The people cannot push a corporation, into financial ruin, if the corporations didn’t allow it (in some manner) to occur. The sole exception would be a concerted public effort to boycott their servies or products. By the way; yes, the lending/credit institutions are pushing people to run up excessive debt. They want the people to go over their limits, and pay late, so they can charge excessive fees, and jack up the interest; all in an attempt to make a buck. Big bucks actually. This more than compensates for the number of individuals, who ultimately get carried away and can’t pay. Joe Biden himself, voted to make personally bankruptcy laws tougher, while pushing and getting Delaware to adopt a no ceiling interest rate. The same with South Dakota. That’s why so many of the credit companies are there.
There is a big difference between being a lemming, and there being a societal/cultural mindset.
I am an Independent moderate, who doesn’t see things from just one side. You are doing exactly what politicians do, and those that follow these two parties blindly. You point out the faults of others, instead of discussing the issues. You have not understood that the people are always at the mercy, or wrath of those that control things. You will not address the corporate bribery of the Democratic and Republican parties. That is even a bigger factor, in the sad shape our country is in, financially and otherwise.
It appears from everything we’re hearing in the news, that the majority of Americans do not agree with the side you are taking. That should tell something. Oh, and please don’t say that they are all wrong. That would not be a smart statement to make.
I’m trying to have a real discussion/debate, but you are avoiding my points and my questions. Please answer my questions. Again, do you lean more to the conservative or liberal views? What kind of work do you do? And what political party are you registered with? If you want to bow out, you are of course, free to do so. Whatever your decision, let’s keep it civil.
Charlie.
Looks like good old Charlie is up to it again. Simply put, he can’t tolerate anyones views other than his own and is ruining this site in doing so, not to mention making himself look like an ass in the process. Liqcity, enough is enough, can you ban this jerk already.
Should I also include my voting record, my SS # and DOB, the names of my children and my favorite color? I’m not sure with what any of those questions have to do with the price of tea in China. My opinions are my own and what policital party I affiate myself with is not relevent, although I did answer that question above somewhere. Look I’m not going to change your mind, you are not going to change mine. Let’s just agree to disagree.
Actually it is relevent. Your not wanting to answer them, gives me want I wanted to know. Okay let’s end this because we both can see that this will lead nowhere.
There is one thing that we did, though. That was to show those who have this insatitable need to insult others, like Townie, and #26, who the real men are. We didn’t need to insult and get carried away. Disagreements are not lovefests, but I think we did it with some civility and class.
Okay, #27/I am 19; I guess it’s time to move on.
So, #26; I see you’re back, and as childish as ever. You’re the one who always complains of “ruining this site”. Since you were banned from QW.com for your attacks and insults. You’re just looking for revenge. Grow up.
Now, let’s see if you keep coming back at me, thus proving my point.
Charlie.
Which neighborhoods will take biggest knock?
With New York City’s financial sector freefalling, real estate industry insiders are expecting price drops across the board. But certain neighborhoods will probably be hit harder than others by the chaos on Wall Street.
In the past year, the city’s financial sector has lost approximately 10,000 jobs. Last month — when it was shaken to its core with Lehman Brothers’ bankruptcy filing and purchase by Barclays, Bank of America’s acquisition of Merrill Lynch, JPMorgan’s buyout of Washington Mutual and several other emergency rescue deals — the New York State Department of Labor projected that an additional 40,000 jobs could be eliminated in the coming year.
Barry Hersh, clinical assistant professor at New York University’s Real Estate Institute, said that the direct impact of the layoffs could be felt in a wide variety of neighborhoods, especially those in close proximity to financial services firms. While the swing factor would be how many residents bought in those neighborhoods in expectation of an easy commute, neighborhoods that Hersh mentioned as possibly vulnerable include Midtown near the Plaza Hotel (where a lot of hedge funds are clustered), Long Island City, and even Hoboken.
So Charlie “there is no reason for insults” but everyone who disagrees with you is “childish”, a “crybaby”, “not much of a man”, and “needs to have their diaper changed”. That sure sounds like taking the high road.
#26 is right you should be banned for contributing absoultely nothing to this site.
And for the record, this is someone who has never been banned from Citi Lights.com. I always thought that website along with Curbed was a joke, does not represent LIC well and never cared to participate in it. Perhaps, however, thats where you should stick your posting to.
If you haven’t gotten message yet, its that alot of people here feel the same way.
Sorry, Charlie, we like pissing you off because you’re such a tireless and devoted control freak. On the other hand, someone needs to tell us what constitutes civility, and, in my case, it’s helpful when you remind me to change my diaper, and I’m grateful for your generous sensitivity training as well. Oh, and it was really sobering to read your (low) estimation of my manhood.
Yes, I called some anonymous poster a muffin brain…oooohh! What an utter desecration of this sacred an honorable place! (A corporate-bankrolled real estate blog)
Must say, #26, that to suggest banning a voice like Charlie just because (in your opinion) he’s an “ass” seems like outright censorship–and since his theories are nowadays relatively tame, what’s the big deal? Let him skirmish in the Class War.
Meanwhile, notice he hasn’t accused you of being Townie in disguise. We might take that as a positive improvement.
You both are so gullible. You just can’t help yourselves. You’ve proved my point.
Charlie.
Huh? I mean…Which was?
Wow, you’re not very smart either.
Charlie.
Scratch the positive improvement.
Yep Townie; keep scratching.
Charlie.
Charlie,
Are you ever going to learn?
This is hardly an adequate substitute for a good bar conversation.
I absolutely agree Townie. There’s nothing like good conversation, good beer, and maybe some pool or darts.
Charlie.
LOL
BTW Charlie I could not find a single place on any thread where I called YOU a name or otherwise actually insulted YOU. As for the sarcasm , I think you earned that.
Go back to Your post #43 on the CUNY variance thread. You began to get frustrated, and started to sarcastically attack and insult #42, who did nothing to deserve it. I then told you to calm down, as did another poster. You then explained why you were getting frustrated, and that was the end of it. That was until your post # 49, when you appeared to get a bug up your ass, and where you continued expressing your frustration, in your sarcastic and combative style; when at the end of the post, you said the following:
“But I understand Charlie is the only one allowed to rant on this site. (You can see his castigation of Banking and Real Estate on the latest thread.) Why don’t you go pick on him?”
I then responded with:
Hey Townie; what’s with the sarcastic remark concerning me? Why would you tell someone to pick on me?
“I believe in anyone posting what they feel and think, of any length, even if it is a rant; as long as it’s done respectfully with concern to others, and in a coherent manner. Oh, and by the way, I don’t rant, except in defense of myself; and then only when I begin to lose control. My heavy criticism of the financial industry is justified, and I didn’t rail on the real estate sector; as you suggested.
So, be cool, and watch what you say. Be respectful of others, or you will deserve none in return.”
You then got all juvenile, and began your attacks on me. You lost respect in the eyes of myself and a few others who commented, so I then decided that I was going to give you a taste of your own medicine.
You then began your childish whining and attacking; going on and on and on, just like those who can’t express themselves or their frustration, without using sarcasm and by insulting others. You and others like you, thinks it provides validity, security, and strength. In reality, it just shows one’s juvenile nature and immaturity.
Charlie.
By the way, I thought that posts # 38, 39 & 40 in this thread, put and end to it.
Like a kid, you just couldn’t let it rest. You just had to try to start it up again.
Charlie.
Nevertheless, I never called you any names. How did I insult YOU?
I never said or implied that you called me names, Townie. Go back and re-read everything on the CUNY thread, and the earlier ones on this thread. If you can’t understand what you write, and what others have to say, then maybe you need some reading comprehension and composition lessons. I’m not going to play childish games with you.
Charlie.
Well, actually, I did call you a control freak. What was I thinking?
Everytime you post in this manner, you prove my point.
Charlie.
Wow, now we have to keep a reference manual to all previous posts. I just tuned in. Charlie, does it ever occur to you that you might have an unhealthy addiction to blogging? As an observer who is not part of this debate, I have to say that it’s Charlie, Charlie all over this blog. Charlie, What’s up with that?
Hey Townie, stop pretending you’re someone else. The “I just tuned in”, gave it away. If you just tuned in, how would you know anything of my posting history? Like I said before; you’re also not very smart. Grow the hell up. So again, you and any others who post in this manner, keep proving my point. Either post in a respectful manner , or just go back to curbed, and any other loser blogs you came from.
Charlie.
Charlie, I am 48 and I am not Townie. I guess there really is no reasoning with you. Will you ever stop trying to prove you are right and others are wrong? Do you ever introspect? I refuse to get caught up in the semantics of “I just tuned in”. If you need to be so absolute and concrete I doubt I can explain it to you any better. Suffice it to say that Townie is not the only one tired of your blowhard know-it-all unappointed moderator baloney. Some of what you say is certainly and definitely right on but you really have a problem and should look into it. If my advice comes across too harsh I apologize.
Tell the others like Townie to learn some respect. If you really paid attention to all of the posts, you would’ve known that they were the ones who like to insult and disrespect others. They act like (and probably are) disrespectful kids with nasty mouths; and you get on my case? Why do you not say anything condemning them, for their negative actions. It’s because you are one of them, trying to act pious. Tell that bullshit to someone gullible enough to believe you.
Like I said previously, you are one of those who pretends to be more than one person. You see, by your use of the term “moderator baloney”, you show that you are one of those who has this need to name call, insult and be sarcastic. If you guys don’t like what someone says, you post sarcastically, with insults, and even name calling. No one wants to hear your crap. You have this thing for thinking that you and your insult buddies, have the right to say anything without consequence. That’s why you and them keep throwing around terms like “moderator baloney”, “he’s ruining this site” and “if this site begins registration, I’ll never post here again”. Actually, never posting here again would be a good thing. It’s your unwillingness to be responsible for what you say to others. Your post #50 shows it.
You see, I really don’t care what your opinion is, and finally, if you don’t like it; too bad. Go start your own blog, then you, Townie and any others like you can insult others all you want.
Charlie.
hey charlie, i think those boys need a good spanking from their mommies.
Once again Charlie you want to show that you are invincible and above all others. All I’m asking is you give it a break. Also it’s not a court of law so you need not go into long rambling lines of defense or offense. I’m just guessing that the word count of your posts far outnumber any other individual and that you seem to feel compelled to act as if every topic is your personal blog. My opinion is it’s a modern day illness. If you want to just shout back, go to it. But if you have any sense of self worth you might take just 1 minute to try to take in what I’m saying. I apologize for what you feel was an insult. I do admit I got a bit carried away but I don’t think it comes anywhere near your level of diatribe. I would be surprised if you could just quietly admit that some of what I’m saying is true.
Hey # 52. I agree.
# 53/51 and all the other fools you pretend to be; what I said stands. Stop guessing word count and grow up. Go start your own blog.
Charlie.
So basically Charlie will not respond with anything other than bullying and insult. Took me a while to get it. He also still thinks there’s only one person responding to his negativity. He’s wrong. He kind of reminds me of the game the Maverick is trying to play. Accuse others of what you yourself are heartily doing and pretend that you are without blame. The complaint in case you forgot is that you are hogging the blog. It’s hilarious (and pathetic) that your reply is “go start your own blog”. Clearly you have no interest in views other than your own. And oh yes, I forgot. You have to have the last word. So go to it champ.
I don’t bully and insult others; only you kids. I’ll continue to do so, every time you kids post in this manner.
I tried to put a stop to this crap twice before; but your juvenile minds couldn’t handle it. You just had to start it up again. Just like the crybabies that you are; you dish it out, but you can’t take it. You pretend that there are more people in your court, when the only ones actually present, are you court jesters. Go find some teenage blog where you’ll fit right in.
Charlie.
Charlie, I agree with you on everything but one thing. You are right about these few people you are calling kids. If they are adults then they are sorry excuses for them. They are just mad because you stood up to them and they could not get their way. They were here on this blog creating problems long before you showed up. So its not you who is the cause of the problems.
The one thing I disagree with you on is getting so angry when people don’t pay attention to what you write. You got to calm down. Its true that so many young people today have less than adequate reading and understanding skills. You just need to be more patient. Btw my writing is not very good…..but at least I can understand what your writing and i’m reading!
Even though i’m cheering you on, this thing that is going on between these knucleheads and you is stopping a lot of people from posting comments. They don’t want to get caught up in it. Liqcity is selling advertising space on this blog and if people stop reading and commenting, then advertisers may pull their ads and other ones may decide not to advertise here. Liqcity should take that into consideration. They need to take some responsability. Maybe they should start registration or something. All of this negativity and fighting is not good for this blog. I don’t usually comment but I do read it. These knucleheads need to go find someplace else to hang. Your posts are very good. So what if your opinionated. Your comments on the financial crises was dead on. All your points were commented on and many agreed on in the last presidential debate.
Don’t get crazy over these knucleheads Charlie. Your not bad but you do have to try to be a little nicer when people don’t grab what you are saying. There are a lot of people on your side but they won’t say because they don’t want to get involved in the feud. Liqcity you got to pay more attention and maybe do something because it may cost you readers and advertisers.
My complaint has been that much of what C has to say is filled with self importance and lack of restraint. I was simply trying to ask for the same that 57 asks for. Stop hogging blog space with pejorative and mindless attack and pedantic lectures. He and you are the ones calling people knuckleheads, crybabies, jesters, fools, etc. It’s unnecessary if you have a valid point.
Thanks #57. I get what you are saying about the point dealing with those who don’t/can’t/won’t understand. I’ll work on that.
So #58, why haven’t you complained abut the ones who started it all. It’s because you are one of them. I keep saying that, but you’re to stupid to realize it. As I said, I stay on your case every time you attack or post in the manner that you do. You sound exactly like Townie and the others.
There are so many who argue their points, sarcastically attack, insult, and who go on and on and on (see all the CUNY threads), but no one says anything about them. You’re a part of the problem, trying to disguise yourself as a concerned poster. #57 said that this has been going on for some time now; before I came to this site. So, I don’t want to hear your childish bullshit.
Anyone in cases such as this, who directs their complaints about and towards one side, is always a part of the other.
# 57 is right. LiQcity really should think about registration.
Oh, and keep that dictionary handy, Townie. We know it’s you. You can’t help yourself. You wouldn’t just walk away from this. You couldn’t do it before. So now you’re pretending to be anonymous. You are a joke. You’re only fooling yourself, and making a fool of yourself.
Charlie.
59, this is truly getting childish. But it seems necessary to point at the a) I am not Townie so again you are overly sure of yourself. Why don’t you ever question yourself? b) Once again you resort to calling me a joke, a fool, “to stupid” (sic), and now you want to get into a “he started it…” fifth grade type battle. Oh and also my posts are “childish bullshit”. Gee Charlie you really are a sweet guy or girl - whatever.
I’d love to see registration with true identity because I suspect the population here will drop to maybe 4. Oh and btw, I have criticized insults by others and in those cases did not receive the rounds of shots fired back at me. I keep asking you to simply look at yourself but I guess that’s just not something you are accustomed to doing.
Go back and re-read everything I ‘ve written. Like I said, you’re not very smart. you guys just won’t let up, so I’ll be on your case like white on rice, everytime you screw up. Get used to it.
Charlie.
As a born in NYC person as opposed to people who were born in the suburbs and then after college moved into the city.
I have this to say about neighborhoods.
They change, so either change with them [adapt] or move to a place that pleases you more. As the city grows in population again it will need housing for the new people to live in. That is why we need tall buildings near subways. Look at Long Island City it has that.
It is easy to attack others when you post anonymously, I have always viewed it as a sign that the poster is weak. Discuss with respect and reason Charlie his views and use a posting name.
Sure, that’ll work.
#62. I’m an occasional poster - anonymous because I have been piled on when I have used my real name. I would point out that Charlie and Dogmeat are both anonymous names. Also I did go back and read Charlie’s posts. Many are unecessarily rude simply because someone disagrees with him. He will frequently say things like “go back and read what I said..” which is really kind of useless if you don’t know which post he is referring to. And then he invariably calls the person stupid, a jerk, etc.
In terms of what you are saying, you seem to be for a sort of disposable transient neighborhood. At the risk of being called backward and anti-development and any other untrue names by folks like Charlie, what is so wrong with maintaining some small amount of neighborhood stability?
Your post makes no sense # 64. Anyone who comments negatively about my posts, without mentioning all of the other people who’s posts attacked me, is singling me out for a vengeful purpose. Again, you are the same one pretending to be so many others.
It’s so lame and so pitiful.
Charlie.
WOW! What an exceptionally misleading ad.
“Own for only $3,208/month”
How in the hell does this jerk broker come to that.
even at 20% down with a 5.25% (does not exist right now) mortgage, that gets you to $3,200 excluding maintenance. That’s actually over $4,000 once you include the maintenance.
Now let’s look at a more realistic picture.
20% down, 6.25% mortgage (it’s a jumbo conforming loan) including maintenance:
$4,397
either that or he is assuming that the buyer is putting almost 50% down … either way…how misleading. I hate brokers like that.