Long Island Hotel City blossoms; LIC to sprout tallest outer-borough hotel
View Hotels in LIC in a larger map
Many local residents around the Court Square area had reported that Marriott was running around trying to buy air rights to add to their “20+ story hotel” in the same spot(s) that had been purchased by the Toyoko Inn last year. Well, the rumors seem to be a bust this time, because Real Deal has the scoop that not only is Toyoko Inn going forward, they are bringing to the corner of Jackson Ave and 23rd St, the tallest hotel in the outer boroughs, and the 22nd tallest in NYC. Thirty-five stories, 385 feet, and 699 rooms.
- Japanese firm plans largest borough hotel [The Real Deal]
Just to recap the hotel development in Long Island City, here’s a quick list of what’s open and in the works, supposedly:
HOTELS CURRENTLY OPEN
Best Western Plaza Hotel [Ravenswood]
Comfort Inn [Queens Plaza]
Country Inn & Suites by Carlson (accepting reservations for October) [Dutch Kills]
Days Inn [Sunnyside]
Fairfield Inn by Marriott [Sunnyside]
Holiday Inn Express Midtown Tunnel [Sunnyside]
Holiday Inn Manhattan View [Dutch Kills]
Howard Johnson Inn [Ravenswood]
LaQuinta Inn [Sunnyside]
Quality Inn [Dutch Kills]
Ramada Hotel [Dutch Kills]
Ravel Hotel & Rooftop [Hunters Point, Queens Plaza]
Verve Hotel [Dutch Kills]
UNDER CONSTRUCTION
38-30 28th St (stalled) [Dutch Kills]
4040 27th St [Dutch Kills]
ALOFT NYC by Starwood [Queens Plaza]
Indigo Hotel LLC [Dutch Kills]
Wilshire Hospitality [Dutch Kills]
Z-Hotel [Hunters Point]
what’s the deal with the lot on 49th ave. at one point there was an article/posting on this blog that said the lot was to become a hotel. Any news, I noticed that it is not mentioned in the above list.
Maybe Walter E. Massey knows?
If I lived over that way I’d be organizing to talk to city planning. I don’t think that height is “as of right” and they will have to go before the board of standards. So those subway improvements may look a lot like the library on 5th street. Non exsistant. Say goodbye to your view at Arris Lofts.
One reason so many hotels have sprouted is because it allows greater height and bulk. Then a few years down the road the owners can go to the BSA and cry poverty in order to convert to residential. It’s a well thought out business plan.
I do believe the ones around Citicorp do intend to be hotels and it makes sense based on proximity to Manhattan but the smattering in Dutch Kills is what I’m talking about.
#3 That’s funny! Yes, maybe the Professor of the LIC campus knows!
here’s the link to the supposed hotel on 49th:
http://www.liqcity.com/linkage/vernonjackson-to-get-a-hotel-rezoning-battles-on-in-dutch-kills
anyone know anything about it.
Like I said in a previous posting, that Tokyo Inn looks and sounds cheap and ugly.
It’s Toyoko Inn, and yes it will be ugly and budget. Will be great for Sage & Court Sq diner, but that’s about it. 35 story building right there is just ridiculous and so out of scale, I have lost all faith in City planning and governing.
what does that mean, “out of scale”?
with citigroup, the other office buildings in the area and the new gotham center, and other planned developments (if they ever happen) it seems to fit in.
not that i’m saying a huge hotel in the area makes any business sense, i just don’t get why everyone is concerned about “scale”.
I agree. I have no problem with scale in that part of the city. It’s the ugly and cheapness of it all that concerns me.
Agree with 11. I hope they spend some money on the design otherwise build it as tall as you want.
35 stories will block the sunlight for about another hour each morning from our homes and gardens on the Hunters Point Historic District. And while we’re on the subject of tall buildings in LIC, the onslaught of tall buildings at QueensWest is quickly blocking off the “million dollar views” of Manhattan. I thought QueensWest was supposed to be developed more like Battery Park City than like Midtown Manhattan. Just Awful. dj
Oh no! Not the sunlight!
Seriously, as each new Rockrose building goes up on the water, more skyline views are lost with each one. It’s a shame such a very few buildings have to ruin it for an entire neighborhood.
Do people not understand scale?
Views are never guaranteed in NYC. It’s the cycle of life. The building the blocks your view today will have its view blocked tomorrow by a newer building. And enough with the sunlight nonsense. Vampires are less sensitive to changes in sunlight.
Yeah #17, a view is never guaranteed in NYC but that usually means you lose a sliver of a little piece of sky or park. The view in LIC is different, it’s THE ENTIRE SKYLINE of NYC. And a huge part of what this neighborhood has always been about. Our identity, sort of.
Sunlight *is* important to most people.
17, views are not guaranteed but there are standards for air and light.
How does a building 20 blocks away affect the sunlight and air of people living in the Hunters Point Historic District? Let’s stop such nonsensical comments.
#13, the sun rises in the east. Since this building is west of the HPHD it could not possibly block sunlight in the morning.
The proposed 35 story Toyoko hotel on Jackson Avenue will be East of the Hunters Point Historic District around 23rd St. right next to the tall Citibank building so it will block the morning sunlight on the block, just as the Citibank building does now. I do realize that this is New York (and maybe we all are “tourists” as my friend, Kellie, says), and that a new building can block the view that one has now, tomorrow, but do we really need a 35 story hotel at Court Square? A lot of people moved to Long Island City in the past because we were attracted by the low heights of buildings, and yes, the light and the air. Ask any of the many artists, why they live and work here and that’s what they’ll answer, affordable rents and lots of sunlight, of which we are fast losing both. Ask many of the long-time residents of the area, and you’ll find that many do not like all of the tall buildings being built. Sometimes it’s hard to accept change.
And you’re correct, #21, that the tall buildings on the waterfront don’t cast shadows on the Hunters Point Historic District, but they do block our view of the skyline of Manhattan, which we’ve treasured. They built an astroturf soccer field at QueensWest and it’s in the shade by 11:30 a.m.-12 noon, because of the tall waterfront buildings. It’s not nonsense to lament the loss of sunlight. You have your opinions, #17 and #21, is no one else permitted to have his or hers?
Yes, you are entield to an opinion everyone is. There are plenty of things going on in LIC that I don’t like, but I acknowledge that everything can’t go my way. Change is always jarring, but necessary. There will be those that benefit from change and those that don’t. At some point you came to LIC and that arrival represented a change that I’m sure created an issue for someone who was here before you. On and on the cycle goes. Unless you are a native american, I don’t think there is much basis to complain about changes.
24, oh, please. I think there are plenty of people besides Native American who think that casting a historic resource in shadow isn’t such a great thing. In fact, even the lax guidelines of the City’s Environmental Quality Review — which enabled construction of the waterfront towers — consider new shadows on historic districts to be “significant impacts,” which have to be mitigated by changes in the building design or other measures.
I question the concept that change has to be jarring. There was a ton of change that occurred here from the late 1970’s through to just before the Condo explosion. You really do not hear anybody talking much about the ill effects of those changes. Those of us who were part of that earlier wave did not feel the need to push aside what was here. We embraced it as we added to it.
Today we see a sense of entitlement on the part of those that have more recently invested here. It seems many of the most recent wave feel that their view of how the neighborhood should evolve is the only right one. It seems to have an obnoxious flavor of “move over, I’m here.”
So let’s not clean up the waterfront and build beautiful highrises and parks because some people who live in low-rise houses 10 blocks away will have their Manhattan views affected? How dumb is that?
Wow, I never knew they were building so many hotels right in one spot. That seems weird. It’s so ugly and industrial over there… are they actually renting rooms out? Location-wise QP is fantastic for transport.
I’m not familiar with LIC history circa 1970. What type of changes took place then.
29, the 1970’s saw the first significant wave of creative types. The Urban Art Center aka PS 1 opened. Several independent studios sprang up around PS 1. Further north Noguchi started his garden adjacent to his studio. Mark DiSuvero and Noguchi cleared a 5 acre dump to form Socrates Sculpture Park. Two talking Heads founders lived on 44th Drive. “Fear of Music” was recorded there.
Throughout the 80’s the influx of artists, musicians, performers, and people attracted to the quiet yet gritty neighborhood found a peaceful coexistence with the long time residents. Some bought homes and renovated. They became involved with community organizations. A Community Garden was built. Trees were planted on previously bare blocks.
Two large art organizations LICA and HPAC formed. LICA still exists. There were some small galleries. By the early 1990s there were some new small businesses starting up along Vernon and Jackson – the muffin shop that everyone loved, a cheese shop that was short lived, a small cafe near the church.
To me there was a natural growth going on and while many feared and opposed the first towers, the people who moved in were pioneers in their own right. Many walked in numbers to the still fairly desolate waterfront. And these folks explored and supported local businesses and definitely had respect for what was here.
So, to me it’s not nostalgia and holding on to the past and refusing to change. I’m jarred by the brash sense of entitlement once the heavy hitting developers and brokers moved in. Seems in their lust to sell, they also imparted a sense that the new is all that matters. We see that opinion expressed here often. We do feel a little like the Native Americans.
I’m not so sure that a few artists moving in qualifies as a ton of change. You can’t move 20,000 people into a neighborhood and expect that the changes will not be a bit jarrring. The difference between 1970 and now is volume. There’s no comparision.
Ooooooh#31, your such an authority!
31, I’m not sure you understood the points I was making. First, it was not “a few” artists”. The population changed dramatically here as did the use of industrial space. It was not as large a percentage increase as we see today but it was definitely a high percentage turn over bringing new groups of people to a neighborhood that had been more or less the same for decades. It’s why most of you even heard of the LIC to begin with.
Second, I am not saying that I don’t expect the massive increase to have impact. I am saying that I question the concept that it must be done in a way that it is jarring. As I pointed out the first towers were a major change but there wasn’t this flavor of manifest destiny among its residents that we see today in the newer waves.
Maybe I read too much into what was said but I often get the sense that many want to just roll over the older neighborhood and in response to any objection the answer is “hey, deal with it.”
And my final point was that I think this has been fueled in large part by a handful of brokers who see this area as nothing but a cash cow. I had to laugh when I read one described as a “community builder”.
33, unless you are saying that tens of thousands of artists flooded the area in 1970 the two don’t compare. Its easy to say how well they integrated into what was already here when due to their numbers they were never in a position to drive any substantial change. Same with the early pioneers of Queens West. I don’t think people are looking to roll over anyone. People just want the things that they like nearby them. Don’t take it personal. Its human nature. You after all are doing the same exact thing. Its just that previously you were surrounded by like minded individuals. Now there are more people who are not really interested in the things that you may be interested in.
34, I get what you are saying. But I don’t think that wanting the things people like nearby means they have to have the attitude that the things other people want don’t belong here. I also hope that the present population is not that monolithic. I think we tend to hear the extremes here.
As for the past, to say that we had like minded people here before means you don’t know how polarized the views were. But I feel there was a level of respect for opposing views that I barely see today. It was not unusual for a conservative elder to be having a beer with a young liberal or radical minded turk.
Anyway, thanks for your respectful dialogue.
I like apples with my breakfast. You like oranges. I want to fill up my fruit bowl with as large a selection of apples as possible which mean that there is no room for oranges. It’s not that I hate oranges or don’t see a role for them, but I really am not interested in oranges. You see where I am going with this? It’s not about some personal vendetta against you. In fact it’s not about you at all. Just peoples personal perferences. Also I think there is more respect than you think, but you have to understand that it is a fairly radical position to say that you do not want ANY new resturants in a given area. You just are not going to win any supporters with that view as the opening salvo. You would be surprised I’d bet most of the new resident would support some reasonble limits, but we have not seen any resonable proposals. The last CB meeting was a joke you have a bunch of hardliners controlling the debate.
I live on 23rd Street… and, uh… I always point out to everyone that THE TALLEST BUILDING BETWEEN MANHATTAN AND BOSTON is directly next to my house, how it is sort of funny and odd, but how I can always find my way home from anywhere in the city by looking for it.
So… “out of scale”? Really? The Court Square area was zoned to be a new central business district in Queens; just because this development lags Citicorp by a decade doesn’t mean it is unexpected or out of scale. This was as planned, and fits exactly with the city’s approved vision for the area. It is on top of a major subway hub and growing office center and does make good sense from the regional context and NYCEDC/DCP’s vision for the area. I don’t know how anyone is shocked or outraged by this.
er, lags Citicorp by 2 decades.
In any case if anyone expected that block to remain “low scale” when they moved there did not look at the zoning, apparently.
37 and 38, Again, if any new project casts new shadows on a historic district, the developer must mitigate those shadow impacts. That’s part of the environmental regulations in NYC’s review procedure for new projects. There’s no outrage, shock or unrealistic expectations — just the law.
36, it seems that you described the greedy selfishness prevalent today to a tea. If the bowl of oranges expands to where it’s in my face I don’t see that as a form of respect. Or am I supposed to push back with my apples? What kind of world is that?
I’m not quite sure how you make the leap from my comments to “no new restaurants”. That’s certainly not a position I have ever taken. It’s simply wrong to diminish a widely held sentiment toward some degree of preservation by associating it with a few loudmouths. There have been equally radical people on the other side arguing that there should be unlimited drinking establishments on every block and no restrictions to building height and density.
#40, I’m not saying you personally, but it is a sentiment that is not uncommon to hear on the streets of LIC.
I don’t know what the answer is to these questions, but if 60-70% of the people want apples is it disrespectful to ask for apples? At what point are my apples in your face? I don’t know.
41, again I hear you. Unfortunately the majority does not always have the best answer. I think that’s why our system is arranged in a way that prevents immediate decisions based on a show of hands. It’s a process. If people were not trying to shout each other down maybe each side could see importance and benefits coming from each side.
As an example, I believe that some of the hyped up push for unleashed development potentially cheapens the neighborhood. The glut of condos is a factor helping to drive values downward. There may be elements to the preservation argument that aside from maintaining an interesting character, actually enhance the value of development here.
42, I couldn’t disagree with you more. Sure we have hit a momentary blip in the Real Estate market, but that is nothing unique to LIC, its being felt all over the country. Over the long term what will drive values is improvements to the neighborhood. For example a one bedroom in Citylights sold for $30,000 in the late 90’s. Today it could sells for over $350,000. That’s 10 times that amount in a decade. Is some of that value speculation fueled by an out of control real estate market? Perhaps, but I’d submit that a good deal of it reflects the changes occurring in the neighborhood. As they say in real estate location location location. Sure we are one stop away from Manhattan, but that will only get you so far otherwise the Citylights would have sold for much more. In my opinion the biggest engine behind real estate values in the past decade has not been throwing up random new condos. You can put up a dozen new condos on a landfill, no one is going to buy it if you are still surrounded by a landfill. It’s all the goods and services and amenities that come along with your slice of square footage in the sky. No one wants to live next to a dirty abandoned warehouses where they have to slink down streets that look abandoned after 6pm. They want to be close to schools, parks, restaurants, bars, shops, grocery store, drug stores. These are the things that increase the livability and the value of LIC. Yes I realized that LIC was not a wasteland before, but face it; the type that settled in LIC pre-development were a special hearty breed. Most today don’t share the desire to rough it in exchange for the unique experience that living in LIC used to be. What ever glut there may be if someone proposed tomorrow to throw up another 50 floor condo I’d be all for it. What this area needs to be successful is reaching critical mass. I live here. I’m not a broker, but due to my ownership I’m vested in the long term success of this neighborhood. This is the only path forward as I see it.
It would seem to me that a high demand for apartments in well-crafted beautiful buildings is what will keep property levels high. This, and quality services, restaurants and an arts scene. LIC has a glut of huge hastily crafted buildings which will inevitably drive property values down.
Citylights was completed in 1997 and, I’m sorry, it has not aged well in 12 years. In 2000, a 36th-floor two-bedroom unit would sell for $210,000. I found a current listing for a 2 bedroom on the 39th for $399,000. It has less than doubled in value.
I found this interesting: http://www.nytimes.com/2000/02/27/realestate/if-you-re-thinking-living-long-island-city-queens-industrial-places-but.html?pagewanted=1
What I found most telling was the listing (at the end of the article) for a frame house on 46th road for $199,000. That house would sell today for close to a million, if not more.
But this thread was about a glut of huge hotels in the neighborhood. What’s that going to do to property values?
43, 44 – I thoroughly understand that whatever is in motion is in motion and the general trajectory here is upward. It’s all well and good if your main interest is about net worth.
I’m disappointed that opportunities have been lost to make our waterfront development a showcase. I’m also disappointed that the upward pressure has all but destroyed the concept of the one or two family home here and it has priced out greater diversity in business. And I’m worried that putting the real estate industry up as the standard bearer for the economy at the expense of manufacturing, small business, and the arts may be a grave mistake.
I guess we’ll have to wait & see.
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does anyone know how business is going for all the hotels that area already open? are they full?