I’m disappointed that opportunities have been lost to make our waterfront development a showcase. I’m also disappointed that the upward pressure has all but destroyed the concept of the one or two family home here and it has priced out greater diversity in business. And I’m worried that putting the real estate industry up as the standard bearer for the economy at the expense of manufacturing, small business, and the arts may be a grave mistake.

I guess we’ll have to wait & see.

Citylights was completed in 1997 and, I’m sorry, it has not aged well in 12 years. In 2000, a 36th-floor two-bedroom unit would sell for $210,000. I found a current listing for a 2 bedroom on the 39th for $399,000. It has less than doubled in value.

I found this interesting: http://www.nytimes.com/2000/02/27/realestate/if-you-re-thinking-living-long-island-city-queens-industrial-places-but.html?pagewanted=1

What I found most telling was the listing (at the end of the article) for a frame house on 46th road for $199,000. That house would sell today for close to a million, if not more.

But this thread was about a glut of huge hotels in the neighborhood. What’s that going to do to property values?

As an example, I believe that some of the hyped up push for unleashed development potentially cheapens the neighborhood. The glut of condos is a factor helping to drive values downward. There may be elements to the preservation argument that aside from maintaining an interesting character, actually enhance the value of development here.

I don’t know what the answer is to these questions, but if 60-70% of the people want apples is it disrespectful to ask for apples? At what point are my apples in your face? I don’t know.

I’m not quite sure how you make the leap from my comments to “no new restaurants”. That’s certainly not a position I have ever taken. It’s simply wrong to diminish a widely held sentiment toward some degree of preservation by associating it with a few loudmouths. There have been equally radical people on the other side arguing that there should be unlimited drinking establishments on every block and no restrictions to building height and density.

In any case if anyone expected that block to remain “low scale” when they moved there did not look at the zoning, apparently.

So… “out of scale”? Really? The Court Square area was zoned to be a new central business district in Queens; just because this development lags Citicorp by a decade doesn’t mean it is unexpected or out of scale. This was as planned, and fits exactly with the city’s approved vision for the area. It is on top of a major subway hub and growing office center and does make good sense from the regional context and NYCEDC/DCP’s vision for the area. I don’t know how anyone is shocked or outraged by this.

As for the past, to say that we had like minded people here before means you don’t know how polarized the views were. But I feel there was a level of respect for opposing views that I barely see today. It was not unusual for a conservative elder to be having a beer with a young liberal or radical minded turk.

Anyway, thanks for your respectful dialogue.

Second, I am not saying that I don’t expect the massive increase to have impact. I am saying that I question the concept that it must be done in a way that it is jarring. As I pointed out the first towers were a major change but there wasn’t this flavor of manifest destiny among its residents that we see today in the newer waves.

Maybe I read too much into what was said but I often get the sense that many want to just roll over the older neighborhood and in response to any objection the answer is “hey, deal with it.”

And my final point was that I think this has been fueled in large part by a handful of brokers who see this area as nothing but a cash cow. I had to laugh when I read one described as a “community builder”.

Throughout the 80′s the influx of artists, musicians, performers, and people attracted to the quiet yet gritty neighborhood found a peaceful coexistence with the long time residents. Some bought homes and renovated. They became involved with community organizations. A Community Garden was built. Trees were planted on previously bare blocks.

Two large art organizations LICA and HPAC formed. LICA still exists. There were some small galleries. By the early 1990s there were some new small businesses starting up along Vernon and Jackson – the muffin shop that everyone loved, a cheese shop that was short lived, a small cafe near the church.

To me there was a natural growth going on and while many feared and opposed the first towers, the people who moved in were pioneers in their own right. Many walked in numbers to the still fairly desolate waterfront. And these folks explored and supported local businesses and definitely had respect for what was here.

So, to me it’s not nostalgia and holding on to the past and refusing to change. I’m jarred by the brash sense of entitlement once the heavy hitting developers and brokers moved in. Seems in their lust to sell, they also imparted a sense that the new is all that matters. We see that opinion expressed here often. We do feel a little like the Native Americans.

Today we see a sense of entitlement on the part of those that have more recently invested here. It seems many of the most recent wave feel that their view of how the neighborhood should evolve is the only right one. It seems to have an obnoxious flavor of “move over, I’m here.”

And you’re correct, #21, that the tall buildings on the waterfront don’t cast shadows on the Hunters Point Historic District, but they do block our view of the skyline of Manhattan, which we’ve treasured. They built an astroturf soccer field at QueensWest and it’s in the shade by 11:30 a.m.-12 noon, because of the tall waterfront buildings. It’s not nonsense to lament the loss of sunlight. You have your opinions, #17 and #21, is no one else permitted to have his or hers?